Nuclear Vibrations: Krane pg 141 | 0^+ State

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the addition of quadrupole phonons to a ##0^+## state as described in Krane's text, specifically focusing on the implications for angular momentum and parity in nuclear vibrations. Participants explore the allowed values of angular momentum and the conditions under which certain states can exist, including the reasoning behind the restrictions on angular momentum values and parity considerations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the list of possible ##\mu## values for quadrupole phonons is derived, particularly why certain angular momentum values like ##l=1## or ##l=3## are not permitted.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the possibility of a ##3^+## state and its parity, noting that the total wave function must be symmetric and questioning how this aligns with the established rules.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of angular momentum selection rules, suggesting that only even values of angular momentum are allowed for two-phonon states due to symmetrization effects.
  • One participant acknowledges the role of Clebsch-Gordan coefficients in understanding the restrictions on angular momentum values and expresses curiosity about the implications for three quadrupole phonons.
  • Another participant references a PDF that simplifies the explanation of the allowed states, indicating that the reasoning for the ##\mu## states leads to the correct conclusions regarding angular momentum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the angular momentum and parity rules, with some agreeing on the restrictions for two-phonon states while others remain uncertain about the implications for three quadrupole phonons. The discussion does not reach a consensus on all points raised.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of the Clebsch-Gordan coefficients and the specific conditions under which certain angular momentum states are permitted. The discussion also highlights the complexity of symmetrization in relation to phonon states.

Incand
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In a passage of our book (Krane page 141) they add two quadrupole phonons to a ##0^+## state. So as I understand it these phonon can be written in the form ##Y_{\lambda \mu}## with ##\lambda=2##. It makes sense that this corresponds to two units of angular momenta. Then they talk about the possible ##\mu## values for these phonons and get the list below. But I don't understand how they get the list below. I can understand how ##+\mu = \pm 4## forces ##l=4## but not the rest. Why isn't ##l=1## or ##l=3## permitted?

##l=4 \; \; \; \mu = +4, +3 ,+2 ,+1 ,0 ,-1,-2,-3,-4##
##l=2 \; \; \; \mu = +2 ,+1 ,0 ,-1,-2##
##l=0 \; \; \; \mu = +0##

They also say that if we instead add ##3## quadrupole the possible states are
##0^+, 2^+, 3^+, 4^+,6^+##.
But how is ##3^+## possible? Shouldn't the parity be ##(-1)^l##?
Even parity makes some sense with the total wave function of the phonons must be symmetric since they have integer spins and ##0^+## being symmetric the combination should be symmetric but I don't get why this contradicts the rule above.
 
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Incand said:
They also say that if we instead add 333 quadrupole the possible states are
0+,2+,3+,4+,6+0+,2+,3+,4+,6+0^+, 2^+, 3^+, 4^+,6^+.
But how is 3+3+3^+ possible? Shouldn't the parity be (−1)l(−1)l(-1)^l?
Even parity makes some sense with the total wave function of the phonons must be symmetric since they have integer spins and 0+0+0^+ being symmetric the combination should be symmetric but I don't get why this contradicts the rule above.

i was looking up and found that the allowed states are due to angular momentum correlations...
<Angular-momentum selection rules allow for the values of λ = 0,1,2,3,4.
However, it turns out that not all of these values are possible

the wave functions for odd values of λ vanish: such states do not exist !
The two-phonon states are thus restricted to angular momenta 0, 2, and 4,
forming the two-phonon triplet.

This effect is an example of the interplay of angular-momentum coupling and
symmetrization (or, for fermions, antisymmetrization).>

To get a detail treatment of modes of vibrations (both surface vibrations and spherical vibrations)
one can look up the following...

<http://th.physik.uni-frankfurt.de/~svogel/lecture_ws_2011_12/slides_bratkovskaya_3.pdf>
 
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That would explain it. I've read through the pdf too. I haven't read about Clebsch-Gordan coefficients before so I guess the explanation is a bit beyond me. But at least now I know a reason for why we only have even values of angular momenta. Kind of makes me even more curious about the three quadrupole phonon thought with their non even state.

I now remembered the parity rules explaining the ##3^+## state as well. Parity is ##\pi = \Pi_i \pi_i## so since the quadrupole phonon is even so is the total parity.
 
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I found that the following pdf explain it quite nicely in a simpler way
https://www.icts.res.in/media/uploads/Talk/Slides/Regan-lecture2.pdf
So for example for two phonons we only had a single ##\mu = 3## state that is already accounted in ##l=4## so we got nothing over for ##l=3##. You can see the same reasoning applied to three phonons in the pdf. So just accounting for all the ##\mu## states we arrive at the right conclusion.
 
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