Number of photons in a given space

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the theoretical implications of fitting an infinite number of photons into a small space, highlighting the distinction between fermions and bosons. Participants clarify that while photons are massless bosons and not subject to the Pauli exclusion principle, the practical reality of achieving an infinite density of photons is impossible. The formation of a black hole would occur if a sufficiently large number of photons were concentrated in a small area, contradicting the notion of infinite photon density. The conversation also references Bose-Einstein statistics, emphasizing the temperature dependency of photon behavior.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of quantum mechanics principles, specifically the Pauli exclusion principle.
  • Familiarity with particle classification, including fermions and bosons.
  • Knowledge of black hole formation criteria in physics.
  • Basic comprehension of Bose-Einstein statistics and its implications.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of Bose-Einstein statistics on photon behavior at varying temperatures.
  • Study the conditions under which black holes form, particularly in relation to photon density.
  • Explore the differences between fermions and bosons in quantum mechanics.
  • Investigate the concept of infinite density in theoretical physics and its limitations.
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, students of quantum mechanics, and anyone interested in the properties of light and particle physics will benefit from this discussion.

Bradfordly1
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Because they are massless, could you theoretically fit an infinite number of Photons into a small space? There is probably an equation that proves this wrong but I'm curious.
 
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Bradfordly1 said:
Because they are massless, could you theoretically fit an infinite number of Photons into a small space?
Hmm, I do not think so. Photons have energy, and if you stack a sufficiently (VERY) large number of them together into a sufficiently small space, according to physics a black hole should form. EDIT: Actually I'm not really sure about this at the moment, I have to think about it... :biggrin: EDIT 2: I have thought about it, and I think I am correct :smile:.
 
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I think the Pauli exclusion principle says that you can't have two particles having the same state in the same place at the same time,
Isn't that part of the definition of QM?
 
rootone said:
I think the Pauli exclusion principle says that you can't have two particles having the same state in the same place at the same time, Isn't that part of the definition of QM?
That's for fermions (they can't have the same state). Photons, however, are bosons. Particles are divided into fermions and bosons, see e.g.
Hyperphysics said:
Bosons are particles which have integer spin and which therefore are not constrained by the Pauli exclusion principle like the half-integer spin fermions.
 
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Bradfordly1 said:
Because they are massless, could you theoretically fit an infinite number of Photons into a small space? There is probably an equation that proves this wrong but I'm curious.

Whether or not an equation says it is possible, it obviously isn't possible in reality to set up a situation where you have an infinite number of photons in a finite amount of space.
 

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