Number of topologies on a 3-point set

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter middleCmusic
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Set
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying and categorizing all possible topologies on a 3-point set {a, b, c}. Participants explore the total number of distinct topologies, with some claiming 20 and others suggesting there are 29 or even more. The conversation includes attempts to list these topologies explicitly and categorize them based on their properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant lists 20 topologies but finds a discrepancy with an online source claiming there are 29.
  • Another participant provides two additional topologies to help the original poster expand their list.
  • A participant successfully adds more topologies, reaching a total of 29, but later suggests there may be 35 based on their own categorization.
  • Participants discuss the importance of understanding the descriptions of topologies and suggest matching them with categories from an external link.
  • There is a discussion about the accuracy of descriptions for specific topologies, particularly concerning isolated points and closure properties.
  • One participant raises a question about finding the largest and smallest non-trivial topologies on any set, indicating a broader interest in topology beyond the 3-point set.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the total number of topologies, with claims ranging from 20 to 35. There is also disagreement regarding the accuracy of certain topology descriptions and their classifications.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about whether certain sets listed are indeed valid topologies, indicating potential misunderstandings or misclassifications. The discussion reflects a reliance on definitions and the need for careful verification of properties associated with topologies.

middleCmusic
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Hey guys,

I'm self-teaching out of Morris's Topology Without Tears and I'm trying to figure out all of the topologies of a 3-point set {a,b,c}. I came up with 20, but when I checked online, this site said there were 29: http://at.yorku.ca/cgi-bin/bbqa?forum=homework_help_2000;task=show_msg;msg=0041.0001

I didn't learn anything by going through the description (despite trying) because they didn't give an explicit list of them, and I couldn't figure out where mine wasn't matching up. Here's what I have - can anyone name a topology that I've missed?

[itex]\tau_1 = \{X, \emptyset\}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_2 = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_3 = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_4 = \{X, \emptyset, \{c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_5 = \{X, \emptyset, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_6 = \{X, \emptyset, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_7 = \{X, \emptyset, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_8 = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_9 = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{10} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{11} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{12} = \{X, \emptyset, \{c\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{13} = \{X, \emptyset, \{c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{14} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{a,b\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{15} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{a,b\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{16} = \{X, \emptyset, \{c\}, \{a,c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{17} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{18} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{c\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{19} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{20} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{a,b\}, \{a,c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]

Thanks in advance!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
[tex]\{\emptyset,X,\{a\},\{b,c\}\}[/tex]
[tex]\{\emptyset,X,\{a\},\{b\},\{a,b\},\{b,c\}\}[/tex]

That should help you find all of them.
 
Thanks! I think I got the rest.

[itex]\tau_{21} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{22} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{23} = \{X, \emptyset, \{c\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{24} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{25} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{26} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{c\}, \{a,c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{27} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{c\}, \{a,b\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{28} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{a,b\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{29} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{a,c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
 
It might be a good exercise to match each of these 29 topologies up with the 9 categories in your link. I think it's quite important for you to understand the descriptions the way they presented them.
 
micromass said:
It might be a good exercise to match each of these 29 topologies up with the 9 categories in your link. I think it's quite important for you to understand the descriptions the way they presented them.

You're right - it also wasn't nearly as confusing as I initially thought. Here's the updated version:

middleCmusic said:
1. The discrete topology

[itex]\tau_{20} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{a,b\}, \{a,c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]

2. The indiscrete topology

[itex]\tau_1 = \{X, \emptyset\}[/itex]

3. A topology with no isolated points (= open singleton sets) and 1 open set consisting of a doubleton

[itex]\tau_5 = \{X, \emptyset, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_6 = \{X, \emptyset, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_7 = \{X, \emptyset, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]

4. A topology with one isolated point and no other [novel] open sets.

[itex]\tau_2 = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_3 = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_4 = \{X, \emptyset, \{c\} \}[/itex]

5. A topology with one isolated point and the two other points also form an open set.

[itex]\tau_{21} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{22} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{23} = \{X, \emptyset, \{c\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]

6. A topology with one isolated point, and the other two points are in its closure, but not in each other's closure

[itex]\tau_{14} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{a,b\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{15} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{a,b\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{16} = \{X, \emptyset, \{c\}, \{a,c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]

7. A topology with one isolated point, another point is in the closure of it, but not in the closure of the third, while the third is in the closure of both the others.

[itex]\tau_8 = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_9 = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{10} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{11} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{12} = \{X, \emptyset, \{c\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{13} = \{X, \emptyset, \{c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]

8. A topology with 2 isolated points as only non-trivial open sets.

I think this description seems to imply a set of say {X, ø, {a}, {b}} which is wrong, but I think the below is what was intended.

[itex]\tau_{17} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{18} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{c\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{19} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]

9. A topology with 2 isolated points, and the third one is in the closure
of one of them.


I didn't have these ones before...

[itex]\tau_{30} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{31} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{32} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{c\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{33} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{34} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{35} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]

middleCmusic said:
These ones seemingly weren't included in Henno's list.

[itex]\tau_{24} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{25} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,b\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{26} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{c\}, \{a,c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{27} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{c\}, \{a,b\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{28} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{a,b\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{29} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{a,c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]

Uh oh... now I'm getting 35... So either the site is wrong or something is repeated or something isn't a topology.
 
Yes. The description of number 8 is not very accurate.

middleCmusic said:
[itex]\tau_{30} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{31} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{b\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{32} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{c\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{33} = \{X, \emptyset, \{a\}, \{c\}, \{b,c\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{34} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{a,b\} \}[/itex]
[itex]\tau_{35} = \{X, \emptyset, \{b\}, \{c\}, \{a,c\} \}[/itex]

The union of two open sets must be open. Specifically, the union of the singletons above.
 
Ah yes. OK - that clears it up.
 
This should also be an interesting exercise, but for general spaces: find the largest and
smallest non-trivial ( meaning neither discrete nor indiscrete) topologies on any set.
 
Wow, the (a) smallest one is not so hard but (a) largest one I can do it but only
using ultrafilters and some kind-of-heavy machinery; I can't see now how to find
one in a more elementary way.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 67 ·
3
Replies
67
Views
17K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K