Numbers with a quadratic property

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the existence of pairs of positive integers \(x\) and \(y\) that satisfy the equation \(2x^2+x = 3y^2+y\). Participants explore whether such pairs exist, seek the smallest pairs, and delve into the mathematical properties related to quadratic forms and hyperbolas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the existence of positive integer pairs \(x\) and \(y\) that satisfy the given equation.
  • One participant suggests a hint involving the relationship \(x-y = u^2\) and proposes substituting \(y = x - u^2\) to derive an equation for \(x\) in terms of \(u\).
  • A participant mentions the problem relates to finding integer coordinates on a hyperbola and references classical problems in representation by quadratic forms.
  • Another participant provides a detailed substitution and transformation of the original equation, leading to a quadratic in \(x\) and discusses the conditions under which \(v\) must be an integer.
  • There is mention of a Pell-type equation arising from the conditions for \(v\), and a discussion on rational approximations to \(\sqrt{6}\) using continued fractions to find integer solutions.
  • Participants share a table of values derived from their calculations, indicating a pattern of increasing integer solutions for \(x\) and \(y\) as \(u\) increases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of interest in the problem, with some agreeing on the mathematical approach while others focus on different aspects of the solutions. There is no clear consensus on the existence of the smallest pairs or the method of finding them, as multiple approaches and interpretations are presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves complex mathematical reasoning, including assumptions about integer solutions and the behavior of quadratic forms. Some steps in the derivation of solutions remain unresolved, particularly regarding the conditions for \(u\) and \(v\) to yield valid integer pairs.

Opalg
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A recent https://mathhelpboards.com/potw-secondary-school-high-school-students-35/problem-week-411-apr-5th-2020-a-27196.html#post119308 asked about properties of a pair of positive integers $x$, $y$ such that $2x^2+x = 3y^2+y$. But it is not obvious that any such pairs exist. So the challenge is, are there any such pairs of positive integers? If so, what is the smallest such pair? After that, what is the next smallest pair?
 
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Opalg said:
A recent https://mathhelpboards.com/potw-secondary-school-high-school-students-35/problem-week-411-apr-5th-2020-a-27196.html#post119308 asked about properties of a pair of positive integers $x$, $y$ such that $2x^2+x = 3y^2+y$. But it is not obvious that any such pairs exist. So the challenge is, are there any such pairs of positive integers? If so, what is the smallest such pair? After that, what is the next smallest pair?
Hint:
[sp]As shown in the https://mathhelpboards.com/potw-secondary-school-high-school-students-35/problem-week-411-apr-5th-2020-a-27196.html#post119308, $x-y$ is a perfect square, say $x-y = u^2$. Then $y = x-u^2$. Use that to find and solve an equation for $x$ is terms of $u$. What condition must $u$ satisfy to ensure that $x$ is an integer?[/sp]
 
[sp]
As a matter of fact, I was interested in that very question. The question is about finding points with integer coordinates on a hyperbola, and this is a classical problem on representation by quadratic forms. I wrote something about it here. Sorry, it's in French, but ‶the equations speak for themselves″ :)
[/sp]
 
Congratulations to castor28 for his solution. Mine is quite similar:

[sp]Substituting $y=x-u^2$, the equation $2x^2+x = 3y^2+y$ becomes $$2x^2+x = 3(x-u^2)^2 + x - u^2 = 3x^2 - 6u^2x + 3u^4 + x - u^2,$$ $$x^2 - 6u^2x + u^2(3u^2-1) = 0,$$ $$x = 3u^2 \pm\sqrt{u^2(6u^2 + 1)}.$$ We want $x$ to be positive, so take the positive square root to get $x = 3u^2 + uv$, where $v = \sqrt{6u^2+1}$. We also want $v$ to be an integer, so we want integer solutions to the equation $v^2 = 6u^2+1$. That is a https://mathhelpboards.com/showthread.php?2905-The-Pell-Sequence-type equation. To see how to solve it, divide by $u^2$ to get $\left(\frac vu\right)^2 = 6 + \frac1{u^2}$. If $u$ is large, then $\frac1{u^2}$ is very small and so $\frac vu$ will be close to $\sqrt6$. The best rational approximations to $\sqrt6$ come from its continued fraction convergents. The helpful continued fraction calculator here gives this table:

https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/9693._xfImport

The convergents $\frac vu$ are alternately slightly larger and slightly smaller than $\sqrt6$, corresponding to solutions of $v^2 = 6u^2+1$ and $v^2 = 6u^2-1$. So from alternate rows of that table we get

$$\begin{array}{r|r|r|r}v&u&x=u(3u+v)&y=u(2u+v) \\ \hline 5&2&22&18 \\ 49&20&2180&1780 \\ 485&198&213642&174438 \\ 4801&1960&20934760&17093160\end{array}$$

After that, the numbers increase rapidly, giving an infinite sequence of positive integer solutions of $2x^2+x = 3y^2+y$. (I'm pleased to see that my numbers tally exactly with castor28's!)[/sp]
 

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