Observer Big Bang? How come electrons have a wave nowadays?

In summary, the wave function collapses due to photons altering its momentum. However, this does not always mean that the wave is "pointed" or "small".
  • #1
slitted
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Hi. From what I've read about the "observer effect" in the two slit experiment, the electron's wave function collapses due to photons altering its momentum. Now, in the beginning of the universe photons couldn't escape the original Big Bang fog until it cleared out, so these should have interacted with "all" electrons in the early universe. Then how come electrons, or any other particle, behave as wave nowadays? Is there some mechanism in which electrons "expand" their wave again?
 
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  • #2
Roughly, we don't observe the positions of the electrons very precisely, so they don't "fully collapse".

More generally, the wave function of an object is not necessarily real, and it is just a tool to calculate the probabilities of what we observe. So whether the wave function has collapsed or not is subjective.
 
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  • #3
atyy said:
Roughly, we don't observe the positions of the electrons very precisely, so they don't "fully collapse".

Ok, but maybe it collapsed more and more with each strike? With all photons and electrons in such narrow volume of the early universe there should have been a lot of collisions, and the wave feature shouldn't be perceptible nowadays. I can only think the original wave initially had a very large amplitude, but then the universe was very compact at the same time. Maybe the wave was larger than the universe, pushing it outward and causing the inflation?

atyy said:
More generally, the wave function of an object is not necessarily real, and it is just a tool to calculate the probabilities of what we observe. So whether the wave function has collapsed or not is subjective.

But the wave function and its collapse is demonstrated in the screen of the experiment. So the wave is ideal when the electron moves without measurement, and becomes real when measured by the "observer" or the screen. Isn't it?
 
  • #4
slitted said:
But the wave function and its collapse is demonstrated in the screen of the experiment. So the wave is ideal when the electron moves without measurement, and becomes real when measured by the "observer" or the screen. Isn't it?

No.

Here is a correct analysis of the double slit experiment:
http://arxiv.org/ftp/quant-ph/papers/0703/0703126.pdf

This wave particle duality stuff is a myth:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0609163.pdf

Now the myths you have from reading popularisations has been at least challenged, here is its true essence:
http://www.scottaaronson.com/democritus/lec9.html

It will take a while to sink in - don't be too worried if it feels funny at first in thinking about QM this way - but once you do issues like yours are seen as non issues.

Thanks
Bill
 
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Thanks, I'll check that!
 
  • #6
slitted said:
Ok, but maybe it collapsed more and more with each strike? With all photons and electrons in such narrow volume of the early universe there should have been a lot of collisions, and the wave feature shouldn't be perceptible nowadays. I can only think the original wave initially had a very large amplitude, but then the universe was very compact at the same time. Maybe the wave was larger than the universe, pushing it outward and causing the inflation?

The other electrons are not what collapses the wave function. It is you and your apparatus that collapses the wave function.

slitted said:
But the wave function and its collapse is demonstrated in the screen of the experiment. So the wave is ideal when the electron moves without measurement, and becomes real when measured by the "observer" or the screen. Isn't it?

In the double slit, you make a very accurate measurement of the electron's position. You don't do that when you observe the electrons in the sun or other stars.
 
  • #7
I think the original question is partly based on the idea that when a wave "collapses", it always becomes a "point" or "small lump". This is not always the case -- one wave, on observation, can collapse into another kind of wave and continue to evolve as a wave (e.g. a polarizer collapses the incident light into a wave that is now aligned with the polarizer, and it's still a wave after collapse). The extent of the waviness would remain the same even after many repetitions of this process. Perhaps the only situation where the quantum wave is permanently trapped within a negligible volume, is when it is slurped up by a black hole.

Of course, there is also another assumption in the original question, i.e. that interaction between two or more particles will surely lead to collapse. This assumption has been dealt with in other replies.
 
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  • #8
Swamp Thing said:
I think the original question is partly based on the idea that when a wave "collapses", it always becomes a "point" or "small lump"..

One key point here is collapse is only part of some interpretations, not all. We have a number that do not have it, and its certainly not part of the formalism.

Thanks
Bill
 

FAQ: Observer Big Bang? How come electrons have a wave nowadays?

What is the "Observer Big Bang" theory?

The "Observer Big Bang" theory is a hypothesis proposed by physicist Roger Penrose that suggests the existence of a cyclical universe, in which the current expansion phase is preceded by a contraction phase. This theory challenges the traditional Big Bang theory, which states that the universe began with a single event of rapid expansion.

How does the "Observer Big Bang" theory explain the current state of the universe?

The "Observer Big Bang" theory proposes that the current state of the universe, with its observed expansion and large-scale structures, is a result of the expansion phase that followed the contraction phase. This explains the observed uniformity of the universe and its structure on a large scale.

What evidence supports the "Observer Big Bang" theory?

There is currently no conclusive evidence for the "Observer Big Bang" theory. However, some studies on cosmic microwave background radiation and the distribution of galaxies in the universe have shown patterns that could potentially support this theory.

How does the "Observer Big Bang" theory relate to the concept of entropy?

The "Observer Big Bang" theory suggests that the contraction phase of the universe would have resulted in a decrease in entropy, or disorder, which would explain the low entropy observed in the current state of the universe. This is in contrast to the traditional Big Bang theory, which does not address the issue of entropy.

How does the "Observer Big Bang" theory explain the existence of waves in electrons?

The "Observer Big Bang" theory does not directly address the existence of waves in electrons. This concept is better explained by quantum mechanics, which describes electrons as having both wave and particle-like properties. The "Observer Big Bang" theory focuses on the overall structure and evolution of the universe, rather than the specific behavior of subatomic particles.

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