Observing the double slit experiment

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the double slit experiment, focusing on the concepts of wave-particle duality and the definition of "observation" in quantum mechanics. Participants explore the implications of detection and measurement in quantum experiments, as well as the role of various detectors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that "observation" in quantum mechanics might be better defined as "detection," emphasizing that the presence of human observers is not necessary for detection to occur.
  • Examples of detectors that influence quantum systems are discussed, including photographic plates, Geiger counters, cloud chambers, and fluorescent screens.
  • One participant questions the sensitivity of the ear as a detector for quantum events, suggesting it is not suitable for detecting individual quanta.
  • Another participant argues that without observation, the wave function is used to calculate probabilities, and without a measurement result, there is no experiment to discuss.
  • There is a discussion about the philosophical implications of different theories regarding what particles do before detection, with some participants noting that quantum mechanics only predicts possible measurement results.
  • The role of human observation in acquiring knowledge of experimental results is debated, with some asserting that it is not necessary for discussing the physics involved.
  • Others argue that human observation is essential for understanding and completing experiments, raising questions about the relationship between human perception and quantum processes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of human observation in quantum experiments and the definitions of observation and detection. There is no consensus on these points, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the varying definitions of observation and detection, the philosophical interpretations of quantum mechanics, and the dependence on specific theories regarding the behavior of particles before detection.

  • #31
zonde said:
You have to establish unambiguous correspondence between abstract theory and physical reality. Otherwise predictions made by theory would be at the same level as Nostradamus prophecies.
If interpretations are helping with that then they are essential to theory.

Agree. A part of some theory may look like this

x=yz^2

But our theorist writes it as

E=mc^2

in order to set the recipient minds into certain mindset that points toward its interpretation.
 
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  • #32
arkajad said:
Agree. A part of some theory may look like this

x=yz^2

But our theorist writes it as

E=mc^2

in order to set the recipient minds into certain mindset that points toward its interpretation.

Context, in other words.
 
  • #33
arkajad said:
Quoting from J. A. Wheeler ("Geons, Black Holes & Quantum Foam", p. 343):

"I wanted to emphasize in this talk that the essential feature of act of 'measurement' is amplification from the quantum thing observed to the classical thing doing the observing, which need have nothing to do with human intervention or human consciousness"

Notice that "measurement" is in quotation marks. Means: be careful even with this concept.


Could we flip the coin and say, that a quantum thing not interacting with anything ("screened off") – is not observed.

Thus, a quantum thing interacting with anything ("screened on") – is observed.

?

Why I think like this, is because of superposition and entanglement. As soon as the 'particles' are not "screened off", it’s impossible to maintain entanglement.

That’s why we seldom see entangled elephants. Not because it’s impossible, but because it’s extremely hard to "screen off" an elephant.

Correct?
 
  • #34
DevilsAvocado said:
Thus, a quantum thing interacting with anything ("screened on") – is observed.

Quantum thing interacting is just interacting. Observation, measurement, monitoring are terms used for a special kind of interactions, namely those that actualize the potential, that reveal it.

The problem is that the standard quantum theory does not have a formalism for this kind of interactions, therefore is rather fuzzy about it. But if you read what non-standard people write about this question, you will understand better what these people are up to and why.

If you are interested I recommend reading

Gennaro Auletta, "Foundations and Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics". Subtitle: "in the Light of a Critical-Historical Analysis and a Synthesis of the Results", World Scientific 2001
 
Last edited:
  • #35
arkajad said:
Quantum thing interacting is just interacting. Observation, measurement, monitoring are terms used for a special kind of interactions, namely those that actualize the potential, that reveal it.

Okay, thanks. I have to digest this some more I think... it’s something in my brain that automatically 'connects' words like observation, measurement, monitoring, reveal – to human (or intelligent) 'activities', but I know it’s wrong...

Thanks for the reading tips.
 
  • #36
Here is a small but relevant part from the table of content in the monograph of Auletta:

9 The measurement problem in quantum mechanics 277 9.1 Statement of the problem 278 9.2 A brief history of the problem 284 9.3 Schrödinger cats 291 9.4 Decoherence 297 9.5 Reversibility/irreversibility 308 9.6 Interaction-free measurement 315 9.7 Delayed-choice experiments 320 9.8 Quantum Zeno effect 322 9.9 Conditional measurements or postselection 325 9.10 Positive operator valued measure 327 9.11 Quantum non-demolition measurements 335 9.12 Decision and estimation theory 341 Summary 349 Problems 351 Further reading 353

Part IV Quantum information: state and correlations 14 Quantum theory of open systems 513 14.1 General considerations 514 14.2 The master equation 516 14.3 A formal generalization 523 14.4 Quantum jumps and quantum trajectories 528 14.5 Quantum optics and Schrödinger cats 533 Summary 540 Problems 541 Further reading 542 15 State measurement in quantum mechanics 544 15.1 Protective measurement of the state 544 15.2 Quantum cloning and unitarity violation 548 15.3 Measurement and reversibility 550 15.4 Quantum state reconstruction 554 15.5 The nature of quantum states 564 Summary 565 Problems 565 Further reading 566 16 Entanglement: non-separability 567 16.1 EPR 568 16.2 Bohm’s version of the EPR state 573 16.3 HV theories 577 16.4 Bell’s contribution 582 16.5 Experimental tests 595 16.6 Bell inequalities with homodyne detection 605 16.7 Bell theorem without inequalities 613 16.8 What is quantum non-locality? 619 16.9 Further developments about inequalities 623 16.10 Conclusion 625 Summary 625 Problems 626 Further reading 627 17 Entanglement: quantum information and computation 628 17.1 Information and entropy 628 17.2 Entanglement and information 631 17.3 Measurement and information 639 17.4 Qubits 642 17.5 Teleportation 643 17.6 Quantum cryptography 646 17.7 Elements of quantum computation 650 17.8 Quantum algorithms and error correction 659 Summary 671
 

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