Occupy Wall Street protest in New-York

[WhoWee]

bolding mine

I've decided to change my view of the whole situation. It is not the crack whores and heroin addicts that have infiltrated OWS, it's the other way around.

OWS has invaded the sacred territory of one sector of what is worst about about America.

Heroin addicts have been overdosing in our inner cities for decades. Only now it's fashionable to badmouth OWS for the problem. I've been watching these kids die before my eyes for the last 20 years. It's been really sad, but I've always felt powerless.

I tried to post something a couple of nights ago, but the forum must have been down for maintenance. Let's try it again...



That is kind of weird.

Evo's new "You guys are off topic!" signal:

But I think aluminum foil is required for evidence of alien invasions.

Anyways, I found the following article refreshing:



See everyone! OWS'ers aren't a bunch of rapists and looters. They're knitters.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Breslin" , 81 years old journalist, author, and resident of NYC.

Among his notable columns (perhaps the best known) was the column published the day after John F. Kennedy's funeral, focusing on the man who had dug the president's grave. The column is indicative of Breslin's style, which often highlights how major events or the actions of those considered "newsworthy" affect the "common man".​

Are you still trying to get banned - or are you back?

 

[OmCheeto]

Are you still trying to get banned - or are you back?

Just spreadin' the hippie retro-love vibes to let the kids know, that there are geriatric hippies out here, that have their backs.

It we go down, we all go down, together.

cue the Omusic...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CABCIseO8Zo

 

[Evo]

Om, I only said that what people see in the media are the violence and the drug overdoses.

What's in the news is when they get arrested for violence and drug overdoses. That's the awareness they are raising, that they're trouble.

The press they get is bad press. It's not helping.

 

[lisab]

Om, I only said that what people see in the media are the violence and the drug overdoses.

The press they get is bad press. It's not helping.

Especially when so many media consumers are not properly skeptical. If the media outlet they're watching matches their political leaning and worldview, they believe every word.

 

[WhoWee]

Especially when so many media consumers are not properly skeptical. If the media outlet they're watching matches their political leaning and worldview, they believe every word.

The press isn't all bad - here's a "chick flick" moment.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/11/an-occupy-philadelphia-wedding/

"An Occupy Philadelphia Wedding"

 

[ThinkToday]

Except in the 60s & 70s hippies were largely non-violent. Yea, we had the black panthers, SLA, etc., but they weren't hippies. Even the war protestors were better behaved than these OWS nuts. Although, the anarchist folks are probably a factor in the mood changes of some protestors. Have you listened to these nut cases being interviewed on the news? It would be funny if they weren't serious. The guy yesterday saying he's communist and American has to be taken down. Then there is the “corporations get away without paying taxes” crowd. omfg. Anyone out there think all business large and small don’t pass the increase in taxes off to customers or just move away to a lower tax state?

 

[daveb]

The guy yesterday saying he's communist and American has to be taken down.

Really?? So only your definition of "American" is what is allowed?

 

[Evo]

Really?? So only your definition of "American" is what is allowed?

What do you mean? What did he define?

 

[daveb]

What do you mean? What did he define?

It's that sentence

The guy yesterday saying he's communist and American has to be taken down.

Why would someone who is Communist and American need to be "taken down", as if they are mutually exclusive?

 

[ThinkToday]

"he's communist and American has to be taken down", bad edit, I meant America and not American.

So how much credibility do you give to the rant from a group that thinks the "fix" is to take America down? I don't see pushing the destruction of the country as a "fix". Do you?

FYI, he looked like a 50/60ish American male representing this "group". Looked like an average middle aged guy, but wow, the things he said. Not all these people are wild-eyed young people bent on taking down corporate America... some are older, and if they had a job, they'd probably be quite and happy to be making a living.

As for my definition of American, speak your mind. It is American. I can always change the channel. But, when you lose the audience, your words mean zip, since only you are listening. Points of view can debated, but a unilateral rant is what people do when trying for force themselves on others. Screw em. Oh, and the guy wants to destroy America, so that makes him un-American by definition. duh.

 

[WhoWee]

"he's communist and American has to be taken down", bad edit, I meant America and not American.

So how much credibility do you give to the rant from a group that thinks the "fix" is to take America down? I don't see pushing the destruction of the country as a "fix". Do you?

FYI, he looked like a 50/60ish American male representing this "group". Looked like an average middle aged guy, but wow, the things he said. Not all these people are wild-eyed young people bent on taking down corporate America... some are older, and if they had a job, they'd probably be quite and happy to be making a living.

As for my definition of American, speak your mind. It is American. I can always change the channel. But, when you lose the audience, your words mean zip, since only you are listening. Points of view can debated, but a unilateral rant is what people do when trying for force themselves on others. Screw em. Oh, and the guy wants to destroy America, so that makes him un-American by definition. duh.

I saw the "interview" - not certain anyone else on the planet is on the same wavelength as that fellow?

 

[edward]

"he's communist and American has to be taken down", bad edit, I meant America and not American.

So how much credibility do you give to the rant from a group that thinks the "fix" is to take America down? I don't see pushing the destruction of the country as a "fix". Do you?

FYI, he looked like a 50/60ish American male representing this "group". Looked like an average middle aged guy, but wow, the things he said. Not all these people are wild-eyed young people bent on taking down corporate America... some are older, and if they had a job, they'd probably be quite and happy to be making a living.

As for my definition of American, speak your mind. It is American. I can always change the channel. But, when you lose the audience, your words mean zip, since only you are listening. Points of view can debated, but a unilateral rant is what people do when trying for force themselves on others. Screw em. Oh, and the guy wants to destroy America, so that makes him un-American by definition. duh.

WOW that is the type of right wing rant I usually only see in my local online newspaper. Do you wish to substantiate anything with a link or are we to just supposed to take your word for it??

Edit: The same goes for post 921.

 

[OmCheeto]

Om, I only said that what people see in the media are the violence and the drug overdoses.

The press they get is bad press. It's not helping.

The "they"(underlined mine) is what I've been trying to figure out. But I agree, the press this "event" is getting is very bad.

and perhaps I was bold dyslexic way back when...

God freakin bless the protesters.

What, exactly, have the protestors accomplished? I haven't heard of anything.

What have you accomplished? At least they are starting to raise awareness of the rampant corruptions plaguing our system.

I've accomplished many things, although it makes no sense for you to ask.

I don't think they've done even that. What's in the news is when they get arrested for violence and drug overdoses. That's the awareness they are raising, that they're trouble.

There are positive things these people could be doing like write in campaigns to their representatives.

Both here, and on the media, because of OWS, I've been hearing ideas that you would only here at PF.

The above may not seem logical: "The stuff you've been hearing at PF is only heard at PF"?
But sometimes garbage I've(et al) spewed out, bears repeating, as, as far as I'm concerned, is not garbage.

 

[QuarkCharmer]

Om, I only said that what people see in the media are the violence and the drug overdoses.

The press they get is bad press. It's not helping.

We don't even see that down here. There is practically zero Occupy Wallstreet coverage in my (large/popular) city. Yet, I turn on the internets and it's all over the place. I read an article the other day about the police putting undercover cops into the protest to cause problems so they could clear out an area/park/whatever!

I guess there's no time to report on that sort of stuff, what with all the http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2011/11/dancing-with-the-stars-who-was-ejected.html" (Seriously, whtn is I4 not congested).

 

[daveb]

LOL, you want me to link things in the current news! omfg, get off your lazy butt and Google it. Typical liberal always wanting others to do the work for you.

Perhaps you are unaware of https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=113181" . To quote:

2) Citations of sources for any factual claims (primary sources should be used whenever possible).
3) Any counter-arguments to statements already made must clearly state the point on which there is disagreement, the reason(s) why a different view is held, and cite appropriate sources to counter the argument.
4) When stating an opinion on an issue, make sure it is clearly stated to be an opinion and not asserted as fact.

You made a post with a factual claim, so you need to back up that claim.

 

[ThinkToday]

Perhaps you are unaware of https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=113181" . To quote:


You made a post with a factual claim, so you need to back up that claim.

Ha Ha, ok we can stick to the same guidelines used in technical discussions even though this is the "PF Lounge" discussing "Politics and World Affairs". I'll give you some sources, but omg, there are just too many. Besides, any half informed adult should know most of this from history and current news outlets. But, here you go...

JFK Voting in Chicago: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-09-26-jfk-chicago-politics_N.htm

JFK Voting in Chicago and Texas: http://stonezone.com/article.php?id=391

ACORN alive and well with a new name doing some ole same ole stuff: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...alls-for-probe-into-acorn-occupy-wall-street/

And this year’s voter fraud in action: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/25/voter-fraud-allegations-hit-san-francisco-mayors-race/

And another absentee ballot investigation: http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/PressReleases/2011/2011-07-05.aspx

Tax Info, from FactCheck.org “Who pays all of these taxes? The best information on that comes from the Congressional Budget Office, which has tracked the tax burden for many years. The most recent complete data cover 2007. CBO figured in that year more than half of all federal taxes was paid by the top 10 percent of income earners. They paid 55 percent of all federal taxes in 2007, CBO said.

That's a comprehensive figure, counting the income tax, payroll taxes, excise taxes and even the corporate income tax (borne by stockholders in the form of reduced dividends and appreciation). And perhaps surprisingly, the top 10 percent of earners pay a greater share of federal taxes now than they did before the Bush tax cuts, which Democrats constantly criticize as a giveaway to "the rich." The top 10 percent paid 50 percent of all federal taxes in 2001.

However, that comes in spite of lower tax rates at the top, not because of it. The reason the most affluent 10 percent pay a greater share of taxes is that they are getting a greater share of all income. Their share of all pre-tax income went from 37.5 percent in 2001 to 42 percent in 2007.

One figure that gets a lot of attention is the percentage of individuals and married couples who pay zero federal income taxes. Those figures come from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The TPC's most recent report was released June 14, and it shows that this year 46.4 percent of "tax units" (individuals or married couples) had zero federal income tax liability. That's because of various exemptions and tax credits aimed at reducing the income-tax burden on lower-income workers and families with children. The figure is down from 2008 and 2009, when the percentage topped out at 50.8 percent.”

LOL, there is so much it’s hard to find the specific piece I saw on the news, but I’ll keep looking. The 51% freeloader number was off a bit (50.8%) from the report I saw, and that has been revised down to 46.4% this year. So, 46.4% don't give a rip if government raises taxes, since they won't pay a dime. Sure more benefits, its FREEEEEEEE

 

[daveb]

JFK Voting in Chicago: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-09-26-jfk-chicago-politics_N.htm

JFK Voting in Chicago and Texas: http://stonezone.com/article.php?id=391

Can't see the first link link - I think you have to be a subscriber to USA Today.

As for the second piece, it's an opinion piece of a book review - I don't see any sources Mr. Stone uses to back up his claims. Besides, what does what happened 50 years ago have to do with today?

ACORN alive and well with a new name doing some ole same ole stuff: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...alls-for-probe-into-acorn-occupy-wall-street/

I'm not sure what you're getting at here - this is about NYCC and allegations it rerouted (illegally, according to the allegations) money to OWS, but how is that an indictment of OWS?

And this year’s voter fraud in action: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/25/voter-fraud-allegations-hit-san-francisco-mayors-race/

From your link (my bold):

But John Arntz, the director of the San Francisco City and County Department of Elections, has said that he doesn't think there is a clear cut case of voter fraud because, among other reasons, the site was not a sanctioned polling place involving election workers.

"There's nothing that I saw that is a clear violation of the election code. I mean, on its face, it doesn't look real good," Arntz said.

Where exactly is the voter fraud?

Tax Info, from FactCheck.org “Who pays all of these taxes? The best information on that comes from the Congressional Budget Office, which has tracked the tax burden for many years. The most recent complete data cover 2007. CBO figured in that year more than half of all federal taxes was paid by the top 10 percent of income earners. They paid 55 percent of all federal taxes in 2007, CBO said.

That's a comprehensive figure, counting the income tax, payroll taxes, excise taxes and even the corporate income tax (borne by stockholders in the form of reduced dividends and appreciation). And perhaps surprisingly, the top 10 percent of earners pay a greater share of federal taxes now than they did before the Bush tax cuts, which Democrats constantly criticize as a giveaway to "the rich." The top 10 percent paid 50 percent of all federal taxes in 2001.

However, that comes in spite of lower tax rates at the top, not because of it. The reason the most affluent 10 percent pay a greater share of taxes is that they are getting a greater share of all income. Their share of all pre-tax income went from 37.5 percent in 2001 to 42 percent in 2007.

One figure that gets a lot of attention is the percentage of individuals and married couples who pay zero federal income taxes. Those figures come from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The TPC's most recent report was released June 14, and it shows that this year 46.4 percent of "tax units" (individuals or married couples) had zero federal income tax liability. That's because of various exemptions and tax credits aimed at reducing the income-tax burden on lower-income workers and families with children. The figure is down from 2008 and 2009, when the percentage topped out at 50.8 percent.”

LOL, there is so much it’s hard to find the specific piece I saw on the news, but I’ll keep looking. The 51% freeloader number was off a bit (50.8%) from the report I saw, and that has been revised down to 46.4% this year. So, 46.4% don't give a rip if government raises taxes, since they won't pay a dime. Sure more benefits, its FREEEEEEEE

I'm not sure what this has to do with OWS, but go ahead and keep posting OT links.

 

[OmCheeto]

I'm not sure what this has to do with OWS, but go ahead and keep posting OT links.

I haven't had time to take a look at any of his links. I did though look up the person behind one though:

Roger Stone

* "Unless you can fake sincerity, you'll get nowhere in this business." (one of Stone's favorites)
* "Politics with me isn't theater. It's performance art. Sometimes, for its own sake."
* "Don't order fish at a steakhouse,"
* "White shirt + tan face = confidence,"
* "Undertakers and chauffeurs are the only people who should be allowed by law to wear black suits."
* "Hit it from every angle. Open multiple fronts on your enemy. He must be confused, and feel besieged on every side."
* "Always praise 'em before you hit 'em."
* "Be bold. The more you tell, the more you sell." (attributed to advertising guru David Ogilvy)
* "Losers don't legislate." (from Richard Nixon)
* "Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack." ("Often called the Three Corollaries", Stone says of this rule.)
* "Nobody ever built a statue to a committee."
* "Avoid obviousness."
* "Never do anything till you're ready to do it."
* "Look good = feel good."
* "Always keep the advantage."
* "Never complain, never explain."
* "Lay low, play dumb, keep moving."
* "Always mount your protest or picket sign on a good solid piece of wood. Comes in handy as a bat if some union goons want to scuffle."

I don't think any of the above will ever come out of my fingertips on the "Favorite Quotes" thread.

 

[Bacle2]

@Think Today

"LOL, you want me to link things in the current news! omfg, get off your lazy butt and Google it. Typical liberal always wanting others to do the work for you."

Are you one of those "tough guys" insulting others in anonymity? I love how Coulter, Franken, many others are tough-enough to insult others in their books, yet do not have it in them to go to a coffee shop or bookstore and insult their opponnents face-to-face.

Still, applying the same rigour standards, why don't you back up this claim too? Or maybe we
can all start going down that road.

 

[WhoWee]

Is the perception of the "movement" changing?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ats-from-ows/2011/11/07/gIQA866IxM_story.html

"As radicalism creeps in, credibility retreats from OWS"

"At what point does a protest movement become an excuse for camping? At what point is utopianism discredited by the seedy, dangerous, derelict fun fair it creates? At what point do the excesses of a movement become so prevalent that they can reasonably be called its essence? At what point do Democratic politicians need to repudiate a form of idealism that makes use of Molotov cocktails?

The emergence of Occupy Wall Street raised Democratic hopes for the emergence of a leftist equivalent to the Tea Party movement. The comparison is now laughable. Set aside, for a moment, the reports of sexual assault in Zuccotti Park and the penchant for public urination. Tea Party activists may hate politicians, but they venerate American political institutions. Veneration does not always involve understanding. But the Tea Party’s goal is democratic influence."

 

[Bacle2]

Still, isn't the more important issue that of whether the basis for the protests is defensible? Many seem to believe that the game is rigged in favor of those at the top, and that they do not have a fair chance of making it; try starting your life with a $50,000+ student loan. It seems to be the case (e.g., Time magazine's last issue ) that the larger the separation between those at the top and those at the bottom, the harder it is to climb up. And , from Time's data, it seems like someone born in the bottom 20% in the US is less likely to move out of the bottom than previously, and also less likely than those born in some European countries.

You will always have idiots and even criminals joining some of these movements, but that does not by itself invalidate the original rational for the protests.

 

[Evo]

My problem is that the OWS are bungling things. I am for Social Security, I am for student grants, I am for medicare. But these people are doing no good because they are not organized effectively. I actually feel that they are doing more harm than good.

 

[mheslep]

Is the perception of the "movement" changing?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ats-from-ows/2011/11/07/gIQA866IxM_story.html

"As radicalism creeps in, credibility retreats from OWS"

"At what point does a protest movement become an excuse for camping? At what point is utopianism discredited by the seedy, dangerous, derelict fun fair it creates? At what point do the excesses of a movement become so prevalent that they can reasonably be called its essence? At what point do Democratic politicians need to repudiate a form of idealism that makes use of Molotov cocktails?

...

Slander! OWS is credible and must be encouraged. Bring in another octogenarian rock star. Where can I donate?

...Conservatives should rejoice and wish for it long life, abundant publicity and sufficient organization to endorse congressional candidates deemed worthy. All Democrats eager for OWS’ imprimatur, step forward.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...f_occupy_CzBSULoDQNsyc0EAPRoTAP#ixzz1dHKgk9RR

 

[Bacle2]

mhslep wrote, in part:
"Slander! OWS is credible and must be encouraged. Bring in another octogenarian rock star. Where can I donate?"

So you do believe that a movement can go on thruout much of the world for more than a month without a sound premise? Just because an explicit mission statement is not made,
does that mean to you that people have no grounds for being upset?

 

[Evo]

Bacle, please learn how to use the quote button, and use it going forward.

 

[Evo]

OWS getting drummed out of business?

Wall Street Occupiers Fear Drummers Will Be Their Undoing

[O]rganizers now fear their inability to rein in the constant drumming will kill what support they've gotten and move the park's owners to ask police to clear them out.

At this point we have lost the support of allies in the Community Board and the state senator and city electeds who have been fighting the city to stave off our eviction, get us toilets, etc. On Tuesday there is a Community Board vote, which will be packed with media cameras and community members with real grievances. We have sadly demonstrated to them that we are unable to collectively 1) keep our space and surrounding areas clean and sanitary, 2) keep the park safe, 3) deal with internal conflict and enforce the Good Neighbor Policy that was passed by the General Assembly.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/10/wall-street-occupiers-fear-drummers-will-be-their-undoing/44085/

 

[Bacle2]

Evo: what happens is that sometimes when I post, the quote button is disabled, i.e., it does not appear. Can you suggest something?

 

[mheslep]

Bacle: that occurs in closed (locked) threads (discussions). This one is not (so far!).

 

[nsaspook]

Occupy Portland ends this weekend.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Occupy-Portland-133567753.html

We have sought to be as supportive as we possibly can, but I cannot wait for someone to die in the camp. I cannot wait for someone to use the camp as camouflage to inflict bodily harm on someone else," Adams said.

Adams said Portland police and federal officers will be working together to end the encampments, including any protesters remaining at Terry Schrunk Plaza.

When Portland can't take it anymore the movement is really over.

 

[Evo]

Occupy Portland ends this weekend.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Occupy-Portland-133567753.html



When Portland can't take it anymore the movement is really over.

One woman says "we can't break up the tribes", what, she thinks she's on a reality tv show? Another moved there from Cleveland and is apparently homeless? This is the problem with an event that is created by social media and isn't organized and doesn't have a clear purpose or plan. They have attracted bad elements that they are unable to control. Not good. They were never able to gather significant numbers or support. Pretty much doomed from the beginning, IMO.