ODE for a forced, undamped oscillator.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the ordinary differential equation (ODE) for a forced, undamped mass-spring system. Participants explore the resonant and non-resonant cases of the system, utilizing complex exponentials to represent the solutions and seeking to convert these back into real functions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the ODE for an undamped forced mass-spring system and describes the use of Euler's Identity to rewrite the ODE in terms of complex exponentials.
  • The resonant case solution is given as \(z(t)=C_1e^{-i\omega{t}}+C_2e^{i\omega{t}}-\frac{if_o}{2\omega}e^{i\omega{t}}\), while the non-resonant case is \(z(t)=C_1e^{-i\omega_o{t}}+C_2e^{i\omega_o{t}}+\frac{f_o}{\omega_o^2-\omega_f^2}e^{i\omega_f{t}}\).
  • Another participant challenges the form of the particular integral for the resonant case, suggesting it should be \(y(t)=Kte^{i\omega_f t}\) due to the nature of resonance and energy input in the absence of damping.
  • There is confusion regarding the notation, with participants questioning whether to use \(y(t)\) or \(z(t)\) and the implications of using complex exponentials versus sine functions.
  • Participants express uncertainty about how to convert the complex solution \(z(t)\) back to the real function \(x(t)\), with one suggesting to take the real part of the solution and another providing the method to expand the exponentials into cosine and sine components.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct form of the particular integral for the resonant case, and there is ongoing confusion regarding the transition from complex to real functions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to find \(x(t)\) from \(z(t)\).

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the implications of using complex functions and the correct method for obtaining real solutions from complex representations. There are also unresolved questions about the labeling of functions and the nature of the particular integral in the context of resonance.

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I have a physics problem right now, and I am so close to finishing it...
The problem is to consider an undamped (no friction) forced mass-spring system. The forcing is given by $$F(t)=F_o\cos{\omega_ft}$$
The general ODE for this would be $$\ddot{x}+(0)\dot{x}+\omega_o^2x=f_o\cos{\omega_ft}$$
The problem requires us to consider the resonant case (\(\omega_o=\omega_f\)) and the non-resonant case (\(\omega_o\neq\omega_f\)).
To acquire these two solutions, I began by using Euler's Identity to rewrite our ODE into one using exponentials rather than trigonometric functions on the right side, which was an encouraged step by the professor.
Using \(x+iy=z\), I turned
$$\ddot{x}+\omega_o^2x=f_o\cos{\omega_ft}$$
into
$$\ddot{z}+\omega_o^2z=f_oe^{i\omega_ft}$$
(the \(y\) part of the identity is just with a sine function on the right hand side and the variable is changed to \(y\), with the whole thing multiplied by \(i\).)
Solving the differential equations for the resonant case gave
$$z(t)=C_1e^{-i\omega{t}}+C_2e^{i\omega{t}}-\frac{if_o}{2\omega}e^{i\omega{t}}$$
and the non-resonant case
$$z(t)=C_1e^{-i\omega_o{t}}+C_2e^{i\omega_o{t}}+\frac{f_o}{ \omega_o^2- \omega_f^2}e^{i\omega_f{t}}$$

Now I have kind of a simple problem for the amount of stuff I just typed out...but I'm not quite sure how to find the solution in terms of \(x(t)\).
I know that I need to take the real part of \(z(t)\), but I am somewhat new to working with complex functions like this so I don't really know how to do that.
 
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skatenerd said:
I have a physics problem right now, and I am so close to finishing it...
The problem is to consider an undamped (no friction) forced mass-spring system. The forcing is given by $$F(t)=F_o\cos{\omega_ft}$$
The general ODE for this would be $$\ddot{x}+(0)\dot{x}+\omega_o^2x=f_o\cos{\omega_ft}$$
The problem requires us to consider the resonant case (\(\omega_o=\omega_f\)) and the non-resonant case (\(\omega_o\neq\omega_f\)).
To acquire these two solutions, I began by using Euler's Identity to rewrite our ODE into one using exponentials rather than trigonometric functions on the right side, which was an encouraged step by the professor.
Using \(x+iy=z\), I turned
$$\ddot{x}+\omega_o^2x=f_o\cos{\omega_ft}$$
into
$$\ddot{z}+\omega_o^2z=f_oe^{i\omega_ft}$$
(the \(y\) part of the identity is just with a sine function on the right hand side and the variable is changed to \(y\), with the whole thing multiplied by \(i\).)
Solving the differential equations for the resonant case gave
$$z(t)=C_1e^{-i\omega{t}}+C_2e^{i\omega{t}}-\frac{if_o}{2\omega}e^{i\omega{t}}$$
and the non-resonant case
$$z(t)=C_1e^{-i\omega_o{t}}+C_2e^{i\omega_o{t}}+\frac{f_o}{ \omega_o^2-\omega_f^2}e^{i\omega_f{t}}$$

Now I have kind of a simple problem for the amount of stuff I just typed out...but I'm not quite sure how to find the solution in terms of \(x(t)\).
I know that I need to take the real part of \(z(t)\), but I am somewhat new to working with complex functions like this so I don't really know how to do that.

Your particular integral for the resonant case is wrong. It cannot be periodic with frequency $$\omega/(2\pi)$$ which is what you have. The particular integral should be of the form $$y(t)=Kte^{i\omega_f t}
$$

The solution in the absence of forcing will oscillate at the resonant frequency, but with forcing at resonance you are pumping energy into the system which in the absence of damping will result in the amplitude growing without bound as time passes.
.
 
Last edited:
Did you mean to write \(y(t)\) instead of \(z(t)\)? I thought that the \(y(t)\) function would be with sine forcing, not complex exponentials. Also, when I do use the particular solution you provided, I still am unsure of how to rewrite my answer back as a function \(x(t)\).
 
skatenerd said:
Did you mean to write \(y(t)\) instead of \(z(t)\)? I thought that the \(y(t)\) function would be with sine forcing, not complex exponentials. Also, when I do use the particular solution you provided, I still am unsure of how to rewrite my answer back as a function \(x(t)\).

It is an arbitrary label to denote a trial function to find the correct particular integral. The name itself is of no importance.
 
Oh okay. Well my original question is how would I change my answer from \(z(t)\) back to \(x(t)\)? In other words, from exponentials to cosine forcing?
 
skatenerd said:
Oh okay. Well my original question is how would I change my answer from \(z(t)\) back to \(x(t)\)? In other words, from exponentials to cosine forcing?

Take the real part of the solution.

.
 
skatenerd said:
Now I have kind of a simple problem for the amount of stuff I just typed out...but I'm not quite sure how to find the solution in terms of \(x(t)\).
I know that I need to take the real part of \(z(t)\), but I am somewhat new to working with complex functions like this so I don't really know how to do that.

@zzephod
 
skatenerd said:
@zzephod

To find the real part of the solution, just expand the exponentials using $$e^{ik} = \cos(k)+i \sin(k)$$, where $$k$$ is real. Simplify and keep the terms that are real.

.
 

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