On time dilation and length contraction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of time dilation and length contraction, exploring their mathematical representations and implications within the framework of relativity. Participants inquire about the derivatives and integrals of time as a function, the effects of gravitational potential on time dilation, and the deformation of objects due to length contraction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose considering time as a function of spatial coordinates and inquire about the possibility of deriving its derivatives or integrals.
  • There are questions about the gravitational potential required for time to change at a constant rate.
  • Participants discuss the mathematical representation of length contraction and whether calculus can be applied to describe the deformation of objects.
  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding the initial posts, suggesting a lack of clarity in the questions posed.
  • There is a discussion about whether time dilation is perceived the same by all observers and how different coordinate systems might affect measurements of time dilation.
  • Some participants clarify that proper time is invariant and that observers using the same coordinates will measure the same time dilation.
  • Others note that changing the standard of rest or the time coordinate can lead to different measurements of time dilation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and clarity regarding the initial questions, leading to some disagreement about the formulation and implications of time as a function. While there is some consensus on the invariance of proper time, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of how different coordinate systems affect time dilation measurements.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the clarity of the initial questions posed, and some mathematical expressions are debated regarding their interpretation (e.g., derivatives versus squares). The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the concepts and terminology used.

  • #31
universe function said:
Another question is could we have change of mass in the measurements while length contraction happens?I think it stays the same according to the math.But could it only in the measurements show this?
By mass we conventionally mean the invariant mass. The term "invariant" means that it does not change depending on one's choice of reference frame. Length contraction, on the other hand, depends on reference frame.

So no, length contraction has no effect on mass. Nor do measurements referenced against any particular reference frame show any effect on mass.
 
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  • #32
universe function said:
Could time be a generalisation of a spatial coordinate?Spatial coordinates show the position but time coordinate changes and moves only as a fourth dimension to the future naturally.
See ##dt## in the first equation in post 12.
 
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  • #33
universe function said:
Could time be a generalisation of a spatial coordinate?Spatial coordinates show the position but time coordinate changes and moves only as a fourth dimension to the future naturally.
If we draw a "timelike" curve or follow the path of a massive particle and if we parameterize that curve (say with parameter ##\tau##) and if we use a reasonably ordinary coordinate system then the time coordinate t will always increase along with the ##\tau## parameter, yes.

Technically, it is possible to reverse the direction of the curve so that the time coordinate always decreases with increases in the ##\tau## parameter, but that changes nothing physical.
 
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  • #34
As a total amateur, my guess is that Universe Function is asking for a way of calculating the "Speed Of Time" (can I say that?) in locations where the average gravity is different from where we are standing. For example, something that has been been puzzling me is that the edges of our galaxy appear to move faster than they should. The centre is deep in a gravity well where passes more slowly than at the edges, which could explain why the galaxy appears a more rigid structure than it really is.
 
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  • #35
Marcus Parker-Rhodes said:
As a total amateur, my guess is that Universe Function is asking for a way of calculating the "Speed Of Time" (can I say that?) in locations where the average gravity is different from where we are standing.
Gravitational time dilation scales with gravitational potential (how deep you are in a gravitational well) rather than with gravitational acceleration (how hard gravity is "pulling" on you where you are).

In the case of galaxies, clocks in the core run only a fractional percentage point slow when compared to clocks on the rim.
 
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