Order and Disorder in Liquid Water: Investigating the Structure of H2O Molecules

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the structural characteristics of liquid water, specifically whether it exhibits ordered domains of H2O molecules at room temperature. Participants explore concepts of order, crystallinity, and the influence of temperature on molecular arrangement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether liquid water has significant domains of ordered H2O molecules that maintain crystallinity at room temperature, and inquires about the size of these domains.
  • Another participant challenges the definition of "order" and notes that liquid water is typically not modeled to have any crystalline structure at room temperature.
  • A participant expresses curiosity about a diagram from a textbook that represents the structure of water, questioning its realism.
  • Responses indicate that the representation may be realistic in some aspects but not in others, highlighting the complexity of defining "realistic."
  • There is speculation that the diagram may not depict room temperature water, with suggestions that it resembles the structure of freezing or thawing water.
  • Temperature is identified as a critical factor influencing the structure of water, with participants agreeing that it likely affects the presence of ordered domains.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the presence of ordered structures in liquid water, and multiple competing views regarding the definition of order and the realism of representations remain evident.

Contextual Notes

Definitions of order and realism are not fully established, and the discussion includes unresolved questions about the implications of temperature on molecular structure.

Hyo X
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Does liquid water have ordered structure?
I.e., are there significant domains of ordered H2O molecules that maintain crystallinity - translational symmetry - in liquid water at room temperature?
I guess this is essentially a hydrogen bonded network -
How big are these domains? Or are they mostly disordered, closely packed molecules without short-range or medium-range order? Is there a temperature dependence to domain size?

What determines if there are voids or vacancies or free molecules?
 
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Define "order" - how would you tell if it was present or not?
Liquid water is not normally modeled, at room temp, to have any crystalline structure at all.
The presence or otherwise of voids, vacancies, or free molecules is not normally deterministic ... but I suspect the terms you are using could use tightening: what is the context?

Something like this:
http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2013/cp/c3cp52271g#!divAbstract
 
The reason I ask is I found this diagram in a textbook and find it very curious -
Is this a realistic representation of water?

WaterStructure_Christian_Reichardt.jpg


The textbook is "Solvents and Solvent Effects in Organic Chemistry" by Christian Reichardt
The cited reference [9] is [9] R. A. Horne: The Structure of Water and Aqueous Solutions, in A. F. Scott (ed.): Survey of Progress in Chemistry 4, 1 (1968).
But I couldn't find a copy of this reference.

Thanks for your help/opinion
 
Define "realistic" :smile:

In some ways it is realistic, in some ways it is not.
 
I would guess this is not room temp. water. This looks like what I imagine freezing/thawing water to look like.
 
Definitely it must be a matter of temperature.
 

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