Orthogonal transformation and mirror transformation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the representation of orthogonal transformations as products of mirror transformations, exploring both the proof and the intuitive understanding of this concept within the context of linear algebra and Euclidean spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for a proof of the proposition that any orthogonal transformation can be expressed as a product of mirror transformations, seeking an intuitive understanding of this idea.
  • Another participant suggests starting the proof by defining mirror and orthogonal transformations mathematically, emphasizing the importance of definitions in deriving intuitive insights.
  • A participant notes that the proposition can be proven for dimensions 1 and 2 but expresses confusion regarding higher dimensions and suggests using induction as a potential method for proof.
  • There is a query about alternative names for mirror matrices, indicating a lack of familiarity with the terminology and its implications for orthogonal matrices.
  • Some participants discuss the intuitive principle that the reflection of a reflection results in the original orientation, relating this to the placement of mirrors and transformations.
  • A participant questions whether mirror transformations are indeed reflections and connects this to the idea that orthogonal transformations might also be generated by shear maps.
  • Another participant encourages checking if personal interpretations of reflections align with the provided definition of mirror transformations.
  • A later reply references a specific resource for proving the statement for rotations in two-dimensional space, suggesting that results from a linear algebra text could aid in the proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of understanding and approaches to proving the proposition, with no consensus reached on the proof method or the intuitive meaning of the transformations. Confusion about higher dimensions and terminology also indicates a lack of agreement on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of the definitions and implications of mirror and orthogonal transformations, particularly in higher dimensions. There is also a noted dependence on specific mathematical resources for further clarification.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners in mathematics and physics, particularly those interested in linear algebra, transformations, and their applications in various dimensions.

Leo-physics
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How to prove any orthogonal transformation can be represented by the product of many mirror transformations, please?What's the intuitive meaning of this proposition?
Thank you.
 
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You prove it by comparing the definitions, and writing an expression relating the two. You know, how you normally go about proving something in mathematics.
Start by writing out the mathematical expression for a mirror transformation, and also for an orthogonal transformation. What are they, how do they work? How general do you need the proof?

There does not need to be an intuitive idea embodied in a proposition. However, if there is one, it should emerge from the definitions of the terms.
 
Simon Bridge said:
You prove it by comparing the definitions, and writing an expression relating the two. You know, how you normally go about proving something in mathematics.
Start by writing out the mathematical expression for a mirror transformation, and also for an orthogonal transformation. What are they, how do they work? How general do you need the proof?

There does not need to be an intuitive idea embodied in a proposition. However, if there is one, it should emerge from the definitions of the terms.
Def:AL(V,V) V is Euclidean space ,dim V=n
A is mirror transformation ⇔ A ( α ) =α - 2 ( η, α ) η ( η∈V and ||η||=1) (∀α ∈ V)
Def:AL(V,V) V is Euclidean space ,dim V=n
A is orthogonal transformation ⇔ ( A(α) , A(β) )=(α,β). (∀α,β∈V)

Question:
Prove: If A is an orthogonal transformation over V (Euclidean space)
⇒∀α∈V A(α)=B1B2````BK (α) ( Bi is a mirror transformation over V , i=1,2······k)

(Note : When n=1 and n=2 it can be proved, then I am confused about higher dimension )
 
Leo-physics said:
When n=1 and n=2 it can be proved, then I am confused about higher dimension
If you have it for ##n=2## have you considered to do it by induction? It would help to see how you've done it.
 
Do you also have these matrices by a different name? I could not find anything on mirror matrices. This seems vto day that ortho matrices are generated by these mirror matrices
 
As above ... and it can help to pick a specific orthogonal transformation and see what happens, so you get a feel for how the transformations work.
The "intuitive" principle you are exploiting is that the reflection of a reflection is the right way around.
If you prefer, you can put a 1:1 scale image anywhere, in any orientation you like, by use of strategically placed mirrors.
 
Simon Bridge said:
As above ... and it can help to pick a specific orthogonal transformation and see what happens, so you get a feel for how the transformations work.
The "intuitive" principle you are exploiting is that the reflection of a reflection is the right way around.
If you prefer, you can put a 1:1 scale image anywhere, in any orientation you like, by use of strategically placed mirrors.
Ah I see, so the mirror transformation s are reflections? I think I remember orthogonal transformation s we're generated by shear maps. Is that what these mirror maps are?
 
Last edited:
You can check to see if what you think of as a reflection fits the definition of a "mirror transformation" given above.
 
Hi Leo-physics,
if you know how to prove this for a rotation in ##\mathbb R^2##, then you can get the desired statement from results in s.5 of Chapter 6 of "Linear Algebra Done Wrong", see Theorems 5.1, 5.2 there.
 

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