Our atmosphere and the rotating Earth

[pkt]

What force keeps our atmosphere spinning with the rotating earth? How can there ever be a calm day?

 

[Comeback City]

What force keeps our atmosphere spinning with the rotating earth? How can there ever be a calm day?

I would think of it this way...
Earth's magnetic field protects it from Solar winds.
Earth's gravity holds it in.

 

[pkt]

But what force syncs the sky with the rotating Earth enough to have puffy white motionless clouds when we are spinning at up to 1000 mph?

 

[mfb]

There is no force necessary to stay in uniform motion. The air just keeps moving in the same way you and the ground below you keep following the rotation.

 

[Comeback City]

But what force syncs the sky with the rotating Earth enough to have puffy white motionless clouds when we are spinning at up to 1000 mph?

The clouds aren't stationary. They are constantly moving and rotating with the Earth. It's just special relativity: motion relative to something else.

 

[pkt]

What force is making the puffy motionless cloud move at up to 1000 mph with the earth? It is not attached to the earth. There is no force makes no sense.

 

[russ_watters]

What force is making the puffy motionless cloud move at up to 1000 mph with the earth? It is not attached to the earth. There is no force makes no sense.

Why does no force make no sense? Do you know Newton's First Law?

 

[mfb]

It is not attached to the earth.

If the atmosphere would move relative to the ground (apart from local wind), friction would quickly make it move in the same way as the ground.

 

[pkt]

It makes no sense because most of the time those puffy white clouds are not stationary but moving eastward faster than the Earth is rotating.

 

[FactChecker]

It has had billions of years for the atmosphere to match the solid Earth speed. In fact, it may have matched from the day the Earth formed. Once the atmosphere is spinning, it would actually take force to slow it down. That force doesn't exist, so the atmosphere and solid Earth just keep spinning together.

 

[FactChecker]

It makes no sense because most of the time those puffy white clouds are not stationary but moving eastward faster than the Earth is rotating.

Overall, the atmosphere and solid Earth spin at the same rate. At some latitudes, the atmosphere spins a little faster and at other latitudes it spins a little slower. But it averages out. The details are very complicated, but interesting.

PS. There is an "Earth" section under "Other Sciences" where there is a lot of discussion of things like this.

 

[rootone]

The atmosphere is a part of Earth and the whole of Earth is rotating.
The atmosphere is not a separate thing which the Earth is spinning inside of.

The usual local wind direction where you are is exactly that.
It's a local feature, determined by local weather systems.
Elsewhere on the planet there are places where the prevailing wind direction will be opposite to where you are.

 

[russ_watters]

It makes no sense because most of the time those puffy white clouds are not stationary but moving eastward faster than the Earth is rotating.

So what? You seem to think the clouds have to fight something to move east - what do you think that is?

Again; do you know Newton's First Law?

 

[pkt]

If you took an ant and glued his little feet to a basketball and spun it,
would he experience rotational wind in the direction of rotation?

 

[rootone]

Yes he would, because the air near the basketball isn't part of the ball, it's part of the ball's environment.
The basketball does not have an atmosphere of it's own
The case of Earth is different, the atmosphere IS itself a part of the Earth.
There isn't yet more atmosphere in space beyond the thin layer close to Earth;s surface.

 

[pkt]

Our atmosphere can and does move against our Earth's rotation all the time, its not part of or attached to the earth.
Big balls in the atmosphere should act the same as small according to physics.
The ant has rotational wind in the direction of travel. Our prevailing winds are in the opposite direction.
Is there an explanation?

 

[rootone]

As a whole the atmosphere does rotate along with the rest of Earth.
Local prevailing winds are as I said earlier, just an effect of weather systems.
Since weather systems are in the main circulating systems, other parts of Earth have different prevailing winds to those where you are,
A hurricane is the obvious example, but there are many other kinds of circulatory weather systems.

 

[mfb]

Our atmosphere can and does move against our Earth's rotation all the time, its not part of or attached to the earth.

There is just very little motion from local wind. It is connected to the Earth: wind experiences friction. You need energy input (temperature differences induced by the sun) to keep wind blowing.
Forget local wind patterns. They are not relevant to the point you misunderstand and you just confuse yourself with that irrelevant point.

Big balls in the atmosphere should act the same as small according to physics.

No, the balls would have to have their own atmosphere. Balls thrown in the atmosphere move through the atmosphere. The Earth does not move through an atmosphere (of what?).

 

[pkt]

If the gravity of the Earth is dragging the atmosphere along with it there should be some delay, but no, those storms come rolling in from the west faster than we rotate [800 mph].

Thanks for all your help trying to understand!

 

[rootone]

Why should there be a delay?
The oceans don't have any problem staying where they are relative to the solid Earth surface.

 

[mfb]

those storms come rolling in from the west faster than we rotate [800 mph].

The highest wind speed ever measured (excluding tornados) was 250 mph (408 km/h), with tornados we have a record of about 320 mph (500 km/h). Typical wind speeds are more like 10 mph. Forget it.

The atmosphere has as much reason for a delay as you. Jump up. Where do you expect to land relative to the ground? Where you started, or hundreds of meters to the west?

 

[russ_watters]

Is there an explanation?

Are you reading what people are writing or just repeating the same question over and over and ignoring the responses?

 

[russ_watters]

Why should there be a delay?
The oceans don't have any problem staying where they are relative to the solid Earth surface.

Nor does the OP!

 

[pkt]

But air is a gas with random moving molecules that never touch each other. How could it ever revolve making perfect circular motions at a constant speed?

 

[russ_watters]

But air is a gas with random moving molecules

True.

...that never touch each other.

Not true.

How could it ever revolve making perfect circular motions at a constant speed?

Please quote back to me what I asked you in post #7 so I know you read it...then answer it, please.

 

[pkt]

Why does no force make no sense? Do you know Newton's First Law?

 

[pkt]

I estimate the top of the motionless puffy cloud to be four miles above me. For it to be moving in sync with me the top must be moving much faster than I am as we rotate. I moved 700 miles in the last hour and the top of the cloud moved much farther. The top of the cloud moved much farther and faster than the bottom of the cloud. How is this possible? What force acts on the top of the cloud to move it faster than the surface of the Earth as we rotate? Newtons law does not explain this.

 

[russ_watters]

Why does no force make no sense? Do you know Newton's First Law?

So now answer the second question.

Newtons law does not explain this.

What does Newton's First Law say?

Look, it is your choice whether you learn here or not. If you keep arguing against learning, you won't learn.

 

[mfb]

For it to be moving in sync with me the top must be moving much faster than I am as we rotate.

What do you mean by "much faster"? Which number do you think of?

What force acts on the top of the cloud to move it faster than the surface of the Earth as we rotate?

You keep expecting a force to keep something in constant motion.

Please answer the question about Newton's first law and my question from post 21.

 

[rootone]

What force acts on the top of the cloud to move it faster than the surface of the Earth as we rotate?

It's just local wind.
Maybe where you live the winds are constantly blowing in the same direction, that is possible
However there are many places on Earth where the wind direction is highly variable, and can even be in opposite direction at different altitudes.

 

[Janus]

I estimate the top of the motionless puffy cloud to be four miles above me. For it to be moving in sync with me the top must be moving much faster than I am as we rotate. I moved 700 miles in the last hour and the top of the cloud moved much farther. The top of the cloud moved much farther and faster than the bottom of the cloud. How is this possible? What force acts on the top of the cloud to move it faster than the surface of the Earth as we rotate? Newtons law does not explain this.

If you moved 700 miles in one hour, then for your latitude, in that same hour the top of that cloud four miles above you, in order to stay directly above you, would have had to have moved 701 miles, or 1 mph faster than you. This is not what I would call "much faster".
As to what would cause this to happen, You have to consider the nature of the air around you. It is made up of countless particles which are individually moving at high speeds of ~100's of meters per sec or better than 1000 mph, which are constantly colliding with each other and other objects such as the ground itself. (air pressure is actually the net force of all these air molecules bouncing of surfaces.)

So even if we were to assume that you started with a rotating Earth and an atmosphere that did not rotate with it, collision between the ground and air would transfer ground motion to air molecules striking it. These will, in turn, transfer motion to other air molecules via collision. This process will quickly work its way up through the atmosphere until the the net angular speed of of both the Earth and atmosphere match. This dragging process will be greatly helped by the fact that the Earth is not smooth but is covered with mountain ranges etc.

The reason we get winds at all is due to the uneven heating of the Earth's surface by the Sun. Warm spots create updrafts which draws air in from cooler areas to replace the rising air. For example, bodies of water tend to be cooler that land masses. So generally speaking, you get winds blowing off of oceans heading inland.( Something I'm well familiar with. I live in the Pacific Northwest about 100 miles inland. Many a time, we, on a hot summer day, have taken a trip to the coast, and as the day wore on, and the Sun heated the inland areas more, the wind off the ocean grew more intense as it fed the rising warm air inland.)

Include the fact only half the surface is being lit at anyone time and different latitudes receive the Sun at varying angles, plus the surface irregularities alluded to above, and wind patterns can be quite complex.

 

[sophiecentaur]

It is no more surprising that the atmosphere follows the Earth's surface than the air in a closed car (fan off) doesn't blow in your face. In neither case is there any "drag force" to keep the air from going at the same speed as the ground below.
Note that the Bernoulli effect is present because of the Earth's spherical shape. It causes moving air to follow a curved path which it wouldn't if the Earth's surface was cylindrical. Many features of the weather are due to the Bernoulli effect. (Google it to find some interesting things)