Out in the Real World, nobody seems to care

[Jake PhD]

I recently graduated with a physics Ph.D., and I am in the process of applying for an academic job. My advisors told me that it would be easy for me to get that job, but the job application process is quite bureaucratic, and it will take several months for it to complete.

I am trying to get a temporary source of income out in the "real world" in order to have a decent quality of life while I wait to get the academic job. Initially, I figured that would not be very hard, as I am also skilled in scientific programming, mathematics, and typesetting.

Then, the reality started to set in. I tried freelancing on Upwork. I was applying for a variety of jobs that I qualify for, but everybody seemed to turn up their nose. In one particularly ridiculous example, somebody wanted a grant proposal to be written for $5. Surely, having a physics Ph.D. with numerous publications write a grant proposal for $5 would be like finding a unicorn, right? Several freelancers submitted their job applications, and only one of them was interviewed, but not me. Then, the employer sent out several invites to other freelancers (top-rated, I assume), but they didn't respond. In the end, nobody was hired.

I did not get any responses to my proposals on Upwork at all, and my profile was viewed only one time.

Separately, I contacted a tech company to work on a challenge that they face (it was mentioned in a recent YouTube video) using certain relevant and almost unique skills that I developed during my Ph.D. studies. In their response, they addressed me as "Mr." and told me that they are not interested in my proposal at this time.

I'm not going to list all of the contact attempts that I made, but I was often surprised by receiving no response at all, even though I had previously carefully prepared a list of possibly promising options.

Overall, the interest from the "real world," as opposed to the academic environment, appears to be absolute zero.

I think that the economy may be actually in a far worse shape than the stock market performance and low unemployment figures suggest. In a truly booming economy, I think that employers would be competing in the job market over anyone that can read and write. In the 1950's, even a high school education was generally sufficient to easily obtain a middle-class job.

 

[Vanadium 50]

This comes across as "I have a PhD! The world owes me a job!"

That's probably not the image you want to convey to get hired.

 

[Jake PhD]

This comes across as "I have a PhD! The world owes me a job!"

That's probably not the image you want to convey to get hired.

I think you're right: I would indeed expect years of hard work to get a Ph.D. to pay off with enjoying a somewhat increased demand in the job market, and, at the same time, I agree that a sense of entitlement is a severe detriment to success.

I view the skills and knowledge I obtained during the doctoral studies as a way to differentiate myself in the job market, and I even considered not mentioning that I have a Ph.D. for the purposes of finding temporary income.

Subjectively, I do not think that writing a grant proposal for $5 is below me, even though it may objectively be the case. I would be perfectly happy to temporarily work as a janitor as well: work is work, and it is always a good thing to contribute value. I might temporarily help my countryside relatives with farming if it comes to that.

Looking for a temporary income, I try to demonstrate that I have relevant skills and that I know what I'm talking about. Also, I strive to be practical, right-to-the-point, and down-to-earth.

 

[Choppy]

Yes, the real world can be harsh, unfortunately.

Often in job-hunting scenarios, I find that a lot can depend on the specific people you end up talking to. An HR person with no technical expertise is going to address you the same way he or she addresses everyone else that comes across his or her inbox. If you happen to have the right keywords on your resume, you get put in the interview pile, if not, you get put in the 'thanks but no thanks' pile. It's usually when you get to a point of talking with a technical person who understands your skill set that you make inroads. The problem is getting to that person in the first place.

It's also important to keep in mind that most PhDs leave academia. In a slow market you may be encountering a situation where there are many other PhDs like you competing for the same position - even ones that don't require a PhD.

I know it's frustrating when no one gets back to you. Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but make the effort to follow up on any application yourself. If you don't hear from an employer you've applied to call them. They may not be able to give you any more feedback than the position has been filled, but sometimes you can end up getting specific feedback, or insights into other positions that may be opening up.

Don't give up. You'll find something.

 

[Vanadium 50]

One of the issues is that you are looking for something very specific - a job to hold you until postdoc season: about six months. There is seasonal work, but not all of it is white collar. I've hired scientific programmers - one who will be around for just six months is of no use to me. By the time he can be fully engaged in the problem, he's gone. For someone looking for a 6 month job, Excel is of far more value than numpy.

 

[pi-r8]

For programming there are headhunting agencies that specialize in short-term contract employees. 6 months would be typical for those jobs. Have you tried going to a place like that?

The bigger problem IMO is that "scientific programming" doesn't go very far in the professional world.

 

[Jake PhD]

For programming there are headhunting agencies that specialize in short-term contract employees. 6 months would be typical for those jobs. Have you tried going to a place like that?

The bigger problem IMO is that "scientific programming" doesn't go very far in the professional world.

I think that may be a good idea; I will look into that. On a similar note, I had a good experience with a temp agency in the past.

 

[Locrian]

In their response, they addressed me as "Mr.". . .

FYI, probably need to get used to that for as long as you're dabbling in the private sector. There are places in the private sector where a PhD gets you a "doctor so-and-so", but there are lots that don't. There are some places that actively discourage it.

Where I work, most people have a PhD, including most of the leadership. Absolutely nobody calls anyone "doctor" anything.

 

[FallenApple]

You might be overqualified. I mean, given the rarity of Phds, you probably have more education than those that outcompeted you for those jobs. Most successfully employed people do not have Phds.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You might be overqualified.

"Overqualified" is a word that has so many different meanings, it effectively is meaningless. It's become a polite excuse - the equivalent of "it's not you, it's me." In this case, it might be used to mean "It takes about a year before employees are fully productive, and we think you'll be gone in six months" - and they would be correct.

Most successfully employed people do not have Phds.

Yes, but that's a statement of the prevalence of PhD's. Most vegetarians do not have PhDs. Most bicyclists do not have PhDs. Etc.

 

[Dr Transport]

Contract consulting is hard with a PhD and no experience in the industry. As for programming, sure, that is always an option, but with a PhD in evidence on your resume the companies are obligated to pay you more. The day of I'll get the most qualified person is long gone, it is all about the bottom line and meeting quarterly profit projections. If I can get someone with a portion of the experience and only pay them half, even if it takes them a little longer to finish, I'll still be ahead. Now your saying, I have all this knowledge that I can bring to bear, that is fine and dandy but again unless it makes profit immediately for the company, it won't fly.

This is what happens when an advisor who has never been in the real world gives advice to their students, harsh reality sets in. My advisor worked in industry and told me I had a slim chance at an academic career so he prepared me for industry and that is where I went. Took almost 20 years, but I finally made it back into a quasi-academic environment at a national lab, I am one of three people in my division who has industrial experience and we are on a course to making the division more efficient and less bogged down in the normal govt bureaucratic nightmare. So the long and short of it, even with a PhD, you have to earn your stripes and start at the bottom and not expect anyone to hand you everything.

 

[FallenApple]

"Overqualified" is a word that has so many different meanings, it effectively is meaningless. It's become a polite excuse - the equivalent of "it's not you, it's me." In this case, it might be used to mean "It takes about a year before employees are fully productive, and we think you'll be gone in six months" - and they would be correct.
Yes, but that's a statement of the prevalence of PhD's. Most vegetarians do not have PhDs. Most bicyclists do not have PhDs. Etc.

What I mean is that getting a Phd essentially pigeonholes you into a few very specific tracks because bosses generally don't want to hire people that would jump ship anyway. Hence the term "overqualified".

Im aware of that. But getting a Phd is not necessary for most jobs is my point.

 

[reasonableman]

First I'll say you are not coming across as unreasonably entitled to me, however I would be interested in how you are marketing yourself. I also applaud you for trying this, I did the same thing and found it very enlightening and it's something I encourage everyone to do. Particularly it made me appreciate the stability of a full time job!

With regards to Upwork I think 'marketing' is very important. There is quite a fine line to tread; as you say, you'd appear to be a 'Unicorn' but everyone knows they don't exist and the internet is full of liars. You need explain why they are so lucky so say things like 'this service is worth $20 (not too high), as demonstrated by x any y, but I'm willing to give it to you for $5 to increase my reputation'.

I'm also interested in how you made your proposal to the tech company. Did you say 'you have a problem I think I could solve?' or did you already have a solution? Furthermore have you identified other companies they are in competition with? A company would see paying for the solution very differently to paying for someone to solve the problem.

 

[CWatters]

If just short term... Here in the UK students are revising for GCSE and A level exams in a few months. I imagine there are plenty looking for tutors. Not sure what the going rate is but perhaps $40-50 an hour.

 

[Crass_Oscillator]

I second CWatters, there are websites like Wyzant that can allow you to start a private tutoring business. I used it. I had mixed feelings, but it kept me afloat when I dropped out of my first PhD program, and with a PhD you can probably score gigs between $40/hr min - $70+/hr max.

It's just six months after all.

 

[CWatters]

Just to add that the exam boards (in the UK at least) have lots of revision guides and workbooks full of exam questions and answers you can use as teaching materials.

 

[Dr.D]

Companies are far more interested in what you can do for them than in the fact that you have a PhD. A previous commenter remarked about the relative rarity of PhD, but personally, I think that there is a glut of PhD level folks. As a result, the PhD no longer carries the value it once did. As you market yourself, emphasize what you can do for XYZ Corp, not that you have a PhD.

 

[momof4]

Have you thought of substitute teaching (grade school or high school) or tutoring?

 

[Jake PhD]

You might be overqualified. I mean, given the rarity of Phds, you probably have more education than those that outcompeted you for those jobs. Most successfully employed people do not have Phds.

I was definitely overqualified for multiple short-term gigs I had applied for, but I think it is much more important to some employers to be 100% sure that a person is a perfect fit for the job.

 

[Jake PhD]

"Overqualified" is a word that has so many different meanings, it effectively is meaningless. It's become a polite excuse - the equivalent of "it's not you, it's me." In this case, it might be used to mean "It takes about a year before employees are fully productive, and we think you'll be gone in six months" - and they would be correct.
Yes, but that's a statement of the prevalence of PhD's. Most vegetarians do not have PhDs. Most bicyclists do not have PhDs. Etc.

Of course, it always takes some time to become productive.

In my doctoral research, I had to work on a variety of projects and to quickly become proficient in different theoretical and applied topics, software, and programming languages. So, I became a specialist in not only serious analytical work but also in doing whatever is required that day. I'm not sure if the same applies to most physics PhDs.

On the other hand, a person with plenty of direct experience in a subject matter may often have an advantage with becoming productive.

I heard that it is also often an issue that many people have narrow skill sets that are not readily extendable.

 

[Jake PhD]

Contract consulting is hard with a PhD and no experience in the industry. As for programming, sure, that is always an option, but with a PhD in evidence on your resume the companies are obligated to pay you more. The day of I'll get the most qualified person is long gone, it is all about the bottom line and meeting quarterly profit projections. If I can get someone with a portion of the experience and only pay them half, even if it takes them a little longer to finish, I'll still be ahead. Now your saying, I have all this knowledge that I can bring to bear, that is fine and dandy but again unless it makes profit immediately for the company, it won't fly.

Some of my former fellow PhD students are complaining that companies nowadays seem to seek to hire people that were preparing for their specific job their entire life. Of course, this is partially because of the increasing specialization of jobs and capital. Additionally, it is an objective fact that the economy is not in the best shape. Finally, I think that there was indeed an overproduction in higher education for quite some time.

 

[Jake PhD]

First I'll say you are not coming across as unreasonably entitled to me, however I would be interested in how you are marketing yourself. I also applaud you for trying this, I did the same thing and found it very enlightening and it's something I encourage everyone to do. Particularly it made me appreciate the stability of a full time job!

With regards to Upwork I think 'marketing' is very important. There is quite a fine line to tread; as you say, you'd appear to be a 'Unicorn' but everyone knows they don't exist and the internet is full of liars. You need explain why they are so lucky so say things like 'this service is worth $20 (not too high), as demonstrated by x any y, but I'm willing to give it to you for $5 to increase my reputation'.

That sounds like good advice for success on Upwork, thanks!

I'm also interested in how you made your proposal to the tech company. Did you say 'you have a problem I think I could solve?' or did you already have a solution? Furthermore have you identified other companies they are in competition with? A company would see paying for the solution very differently to paying for someone to solve the problem.

My thesis documents a track record of solving somewhat similar problems as a byproduct. I told them I think I can solve their problem, explained how, and sent them a link to my thesis with relevant page numbers.

 

[Jake PhD]

If just short term... Here in the UK students are revising for GCSE and A level exams in a few months. I imagine there are plenty looking for tutors. Not sure what the going rate is but perhaps $40-50 an hour.

I second CWatters, there are websites like Wyzant that can allow you to start a private tutoring business. I used it. I had mixed feelings, but it kept me afloat when I dropped out of my first PhD program, and with a PhD you can probably score gigs between $40/hr min - $70+/hr max.

It's just six months after all.

I think that tutoring is a good idea. I will try that.

 

[EngWiPy]

...

This is what happens when an advisor who has never been in the real world gives advice to their students, harsh reality sets in. My advisor worked in industry and told me I had a slim chance at an academic career so he prepared me for industry and that is where I went. ...

Good point. Most PhD advisors/supervisors are not involved in the industry, and most of them don't see it is their job to give their students a career advice anyway. Most if not all companies prefer direct experience over your academic background, because they want you to hit the ground running. As a PhD holder you can work as a postdoc for a couple of years, but probably eventually you will have to make a transition to the industry, because getting into academia full-time is very hard. Then it will be your only issue. It is said that you must be willing to start at the bottom, but the question is who is willing to hire a PhD at the bottom?