Overall, H2O More Negative Than Positive?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter jaketodd
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Negative Positive
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the charge distribution in water (H2O) molecules, particularly whether the molecule is overall negatively charged due to the arrangement of hydrogen atoms around the oxygen atom. Participants explore concepts of molecular symmetry, dipole moments, and electrical neutrality.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Jake questions whether the asymmetrical distribution of hydrogen atoms in H2O leads to a net negative charge in its interactions with matter.
  • Some participants assert that a water molecule is electrically neutral overall, containing equal numbers of protons and electrons, thus having a net charge of zero.
  • Others clarify that while water has a dipole moment due to its molecular shape, this does not imply an overall negative charge.
  • There is a mention of the diminishing forces between charges with distance, suggesting that the positioning of hydrogen atoms relative to the oxygen atom is relevant to the discussion.
  • Participants reference external sources that discuss the polar nature of low symmetry molecules like water, emphasizing the distinction between having a dipole moment and being overall negatively charged.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that water is electrically neutral as a molecule. However, there is disagreement regarding the implications of its dipole moment and charge distribution in interactions with other matter.

Contextual Notes

Some participants may be overlooking the nuances between molecular charge distribution and overall electrical neutrality. The discussion includes references to external sources that may not be universally accepted by all participants.

jaketodd
Gold Member
Messages
507
Reaction score
21
There is a link to a picture below. It shows two Hydrogen atoms on the same side of an Oxygen atom (both on the lower half of the Oxygen atom). Because the distribution of Hydrogen in H2O is not symmetrical, does that mean that, on average, the H2O molecule is more negatively charged in its interactions with matter? I have read that the molecule has a positive end and a negative end. Is the negative end more dominant, overall?

The image can be found at the top right of this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_%28molecule%29"

Thanks,

Jake
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
No. A water molecule contains the same number of protons and electrons, therefore it is neutral. The fact that they are distributed unevenly makes for some interesting chemistry, but does not change the fact that the molecule, as a unit, is neutral.
 
No, a water molecule is electrically neutral, overall. It has 10 protons and 10 electrons, so the net charge is zero.

EDIT: Not surprisingly, MrSpeedyBob was faster in replying than I was. :smile:
 
Redbelly98 said:
No, a water molecule is electrically neutral, overall. It has 10 protons and 10 electrons, so the net charge is zero.

EDIT: Not surprisingly, MrSpeedyBob was faster in replying than I was. :smile:

Perhaps you are neglecting the positioning of the Hydroden atoms to the Oxygen atom? After all, forces do diminish with distance.

Jake
 
Like here: "Molecules that have 'low' symmetry will always have at least a small dipole moment and therefore be referred to as polar. Examples of such low symmetry molecular shapes include: Bent molecules, eg. water"

Source: http://itl.chem.ufl.edu/2041_u01/lectures/lec_16.html"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jaketodd said:
Like here: "Molecules that have 'low' symmetry will always have at least a small dipole moment and therefore be referred to as polar. Examples of such low symmetry molecular shapes include: Bent molecules, eg. water"

Source: http://itl.chem.ufl.edu/2041_u01/lectures/lec_16.html"

Your original question was not whether or not it had a dipole moment (which it does), but whether or not it was overall negatively charged (which it isn't). Hopefully you understand that these are two different things.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jaketodd said:
Perhaps you are neglecting the positioning of the Hydroden atoms to the Oxygen atom? After all, forces do diminish with distance.

Jake
Forces between charges do diminish with distance, but the amount of charge doesn't.
 
jaketodd said:
There is a link to a picture below. It shows two Hydrogen atoms on the same side of an Oxygen atom (both on the lower half of the Oxygen atom). Because the distribution of Hydrogen in H2O is not symmetrical, does that mean that, on average, the H2O molecule is more negatively charged in its interactions with matter? I have read that the molecule has a positive end and a negative end. Is the negative end more dominant, overall?

The image can be found at the top right of this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_%28molecule%29"

Thanks,

Jake

No, it is neutral, its net charge is zero. That is why we write it as H2O, which is the same than [ H2O ]+0 or [ H2O ]-0

in the liquid phase molecules dissociate into [ H3O ]+ and [ OH ]- each of them charged, but the net charge of the fluid is zero of course.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks guys,

Jake
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
6K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
8K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 152 ·
6
Replies
152
Views
11K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K