Determining the positive and negative poles of a molecule

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the molecular structure and polarity of CHCl3 (chloroform), including the drawing of electron dot diagrams, predicting molecular shape, and identifying positive and negative poles within the molecule. The scope includes conceptual understanding and homework-related queries.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the electron dot diagram and structural formula for CHCl3, indicating a tetrahedral shape due to four bonding pairs around the central carbon atom.
  • The participant calculates electronegativities for carbon, hydrogen, and chlorine, suggesting that the molecule is polar due to the unequal dipole moments.
  • There is uncertainty expressed about identifying positive and negative poles, with questions about whether hydrogen or chlorine should be considered positive or negative.
  • Another participant references the geometry of methane to clarify molecular shape, indicating that chlorine, being the most electronegative, would draw electrons towards itself.
  • Confusion arises regarding the charge associated with electronegativity, with participants discussing whether chlorine would have a positive charge due to its electron-drawing nature.
  • Clarifications are made that chlorine, by drawing electrons, would actually have a negative charge, while hydrogen would be positive.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the tetrahedral shape of CHCl3 and the concept of polarity, but there is some confusion regarding the assignment of positive and negative charges to the atoms, indicating a lack of consensus on this aspect.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the assignment of charges based on electronegativity and the implications of molecular geometry on polarity. The discussion reflects varying levels of understanding regarding these concepts.

Specter

Homework Statement


For the molecule CHCl3,

a) Draw the electron dot diagram and structural formula
b) predict the shape
c) predict whether it is polar or non-polar, and justify your prediction. Indicate the positive and negative poles.

Homework Equations


none

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
Are there any websites or programs that will allow me to create lewis dot diagrams, structural formulas, and all of that fun stuff on a computer? As of right now I am doing it on paper and uploading it for my teacher.

a) My electron dot diagram is correct, I searched it up online. The structural formula is Carbon as the central atom with Hydrogen above it, and three Cl atoms surrounding it. They are all single bonds.

b) The shape of CHCl3 is tetrahedral because the central carbon atom is surrounded by 4 bonding pairs, and 0 lone pairs.

c) This is probably incorrect but I gave it a shot.

C = 2.5 EN
H = 2.2 EN
Cl = 3.1 EN

The hydrogen dipole arrow is pointed in the direction of carbon because carbon is more electronegative than hydrogen. The chlorine bond dipole arrows point in the direction of chlorine because it is more electronegative than carbon and hydrogen. The dipoles are not identical in strength, they are not arranged symmetrically, and they do not cancel each other out therefore the molecule is polar.

I'm not sure how to figure out which poles are positive and which are negative. Would Hydrogen be the negative pole, and Chlorine be the positive pole? Hydrogen is the least electronegative of the 3 atoms, and chlorine is the most electronegative of the 3. What would carbon be?

Any help is appreciated, thanks!
 
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Do you know geometry of the methane molecule?

In general the most electronegative element draws most electrons to itself. What kind of charge - positive or negative - will it have?
 
Borek said:
Do you know geometry of the methane molecule?

In general the most electronegative element draws most electrons to itself. What kind of charge - positive or negative - will it have?

By geometry, do you mean molecular shape? I just learned that in this lesson. VSEPR says that methane would be a tetrahedral shape.

If the most electronegative element draws electrons to itself (chlorine in my question) wouldn't it have a positive charge? I'm still confused by this.
 
Specter said:
methane would be a tetrahedral shape.

Right. If three hydrogen atoms are replaced they have to on one side of the carbon - so we can expect the molecule to have a a dipole moment.

Specter said:
If the most electronegative element draws electrons to itself (chlorine in my question) wouldn't it have a positive charge? I'm still confused by this.

It draws electrons, so it has an excess of electrons. What is the electron charge?
 
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Borek said:
Right. If three hydrogen atoms are replaced they have to on one side of the carbon - so we can expect the molecule to have a a dipole moment.
It draws electrons, so it has an excess of electrons. What is the electron charge?
Ahh okay. So the chlorine side would be negative and the hydrogen side would be positive.
 
Yep.
 
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Borek said:
Yep.
Thanks for the help!
 

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