Overpopulation, serious political and economical problems

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Overpopulation is increasingly seen as a significant factor contributing to political and economic instability worldwide, with current global population growth nearing 100 million annually. The discussion highlights concerns about resource depletion and environmental degradation, suggesting that unrestrained consumption patterns, particularly in developing nations, could lead to catastrophic outcomes. There is a call for more serious discourse on population control, including education on responsible family planning and potential incentives for voluntary sterilization. The debate also emphasizes the need to address cultural consumption patterns alongside population issues to create sustainable solutions. Overall, the urgency of addressing overpopulation is underscored by its implications for global stability and environmental health.
  • #201


mheslep said:
Looks like these countries are on track to cease to exist as we know them now within a couple generations, all with birth rates of 1.5 or below:

Greece (1.5)
Czech R.
Russian Federation
Switzerland
Lithuania
Spain
Latvia
Italy
Austria
Poland
Germany
Portugal
Hungary
Romania
Japan (1.34)
S. Korea (1.19)

http://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...ZE:PRT:ROM:POL:LVA:AUT:LIE:LTU&hl=en&dl=en_US

If we were in the ancient world, in which the wars were fought mostly with people on foot and riding horses, that would be true. Any neighbor nation with plenty of young people to sacrifice on the altar of god Mars, would win easily. But the next war would be a global one, very murderous, and caused by the exhaustion of fossil fuels and the planet's overpopulation.
Then, the butchering would be wholesale on a grand scale, with rockets coming and going in all directions, and probably nuclear heads. I imagine that the present technological world will be devastated.

If any of us remain alive, they would be too busy looking for some food to eat every day.
Most people would go to the supermarkets to rob some food, but would be repelled with machine guns and killed by guards keeping the food stores.
In the end, the guards probably would exhaust their ammunition and some people would be able to enter to rob any food stored there. It would be a nasty, bloody and brutish way of life.
With all the infrastructures of transport ruined, it is a question of time the few of us that would survive, would began to a new life as hunter gatherers. If the catastrophe is not total, we will go back to the middle of the 19 Century.

Richard C. Duncan postulates, in his Theory of Olduvai, the life span of a technological civilization is about 150 or 200 years. If that theory is true, we are already near the end of this cycle.
It started at the middle of 19 century and will end in the middle of 21 Century. This total 200 years.
So, I am not worried by these nations disappearing.
I am already 73. And with a little luck, I will not live to watch the end of the world.
This would be a problem for the survivors of the Armageddon, I suppose.
John Galaor
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  • #202


Newai said:
Might need to adjust for immigration, if any.

nevertheless, Sweden had this problem of negative population growth some ten or twenty years ago, and this was corrected by giving economic incentives to mothers with children. If any nation needs children the government should pay for them. Then, the single people must pay to help raising those children the nation needs. It is very easy.
If I were young I would like to live an enslaved existen to breed and raise all those children the nation needs.
I suppose this is a rational way of thinking.
I got only two kids in my life. But I only raised them and married because I found a good and stable job with a good salary. Were I be living with a worthless job, I would not had married at all, and neither breed any children at all.
John Galaor
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  • #203


John Galaor said:
Westerners have not this problem, but the opposite. We are liable to being overrun by immigrants. I a not calling of ethnic purity but of troubles and in the future with immigrants, when they would begin to bred like in Cameroon or some Latino America or near Eastern countries.

I don't know which 'Western' country you live in, but in my country we welcome immigrants and we treat them like we treat any other human being, with respect and a bit of compassion, and we don't cast ignorant and unsubstantiated aspersions about their breeding habits.

To avoid these troubles, they would have to sterilize all immigrant women that gave birth to more than three children. Since the third or fourth child, the women would had to be sterilized.

Seriously, forced sterilisation?

John Galaor said:
It is a fact, that most immigrants felt a resentment against the country that received them in the first way. This is specially true for second and third regeneration immigrants. I mean, the sons and grand children of immigrants. It can be caused in part for a minority of natives that show some scorn at them.

It's a 'fact' now is it? Really. Suppose this 'fact' is true, so you think it may 'be caused in part ... [by] natives that show some scorn at them'. Call me crazy but I don't think they show the same resentment to your fellow countryman as they have towards you. Just maybe, JG, you're attitude towards immigrants has a lot to do with how much resentment they show towards you.

But must probable it happens because, having on average very large families they do not improve as fast as they want. And they could not accept the idea that this is mainly caused by having to many children, en relatives harbored at their homes. So, this feeling of hate towards the host country and their civil culture is shown very openly among them. Many of the polls done on immigrants showed this scorn for the country that had harbored their grand parents.

More of your 'facts', right...

Also a religion of hate had done very well their good part to develop such a hate. The results is that the more aggressive this children and grandchildren of immigrants become, the more scorn and fear would instill in the natives; the the natives, would throw back at immigrant children all this scorn and hate.

Oh, so it's not just that they are 'immigrants' but it's also their 'religion of hate'? So far the closest thing to a 'religion of hate' I'm hearing is from you.

Then, it is very easy to say, we can educate them in this or that. It is very difficult to educate people, for other controllers among them, would do a contra-education.

Lovely, more of your 'facts'.

To speed integration. It is very easy to propose integration. Quite a different task is to implement this integration.

Clearly forced sterilisation would work better.

As for the control of borders... It is not an easy task either. You cannot control all the clandestine networks that smuggle people into the land. And unless you build a sort of police state of cruel performance and meticulous controls you would not stop the immigrant community of hiding among them the new arrivals.

Oh no, we can't let that happen can we.

In very extreme, nasty and dramatic, circumstances, there is a possibility to stop both. This police state would transmute the hate into extreme fear, and the disregard of the native authority, into acceptance. Such a police state could had power to stop the more fanatic mullahs spreading hate among them, against the natives of the host country. A serious "thought police" would stop all sort of hate propaganda, and so on. But this are nasty procedures that provokes disgust in us, for we love democracy and freedom.

Yes! We love democracy and freedom (but only for 'natives'; the immigrants can have the lovely 'police state of cruel performance and meticulous controls'). And how lovely do these 'thought police' sound? But of course, we love democracy and freedom!

It is only a theory of mine. This problem of the immigrant hating us, is very difficult solve by freedom and democracy. Even if they were to earn the same salaries as us, they would be in worse state than we are, because they have a tendency to have large families.

Yes, damn those immigrants with large families! Great theory by the way.

signed
skilgannonau

p.s moderators you guys haven't been doing your job properly.
 
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  • #204


Ok.
I accept that perhaps I had overplayed too much all these pessimistic considerations.
At his precise moment in History, hatemongery is mostly the work of a small minority on both sides of the divide. In general, only a small minority of Islamics are spreading the hate for western nations. Some polls suggest otherwise, and tell us of a 70% of European Muslims hating the western nations. I am not sure if these polls are credible or not.

Then, if all the things continue the same way as it is at present, none of these considerations apply. To say this of the present times is an inappropriate exaggeration. All my previous rant were meant for a near future with a severe crisis related to fossil fuels exhaustion.

The present economic crisis has nothing to do with immigrants, but with our own exaggerated hyper-consumption. Recently, people had been borrowing excessive loans that now had to be paid. Then, what was before an acceleration of the economy is now a stagnancy. But this is a defect of our system and excessive profits that were spent in wrong investments that could not give up profits. Profits cannot grow exponential either, the same way the growth in population. It is the basic problem of exponential growth to blame. It cannot work for extended periods of time. They create a havoc.
Summing up, all this rant of mine, was inspired to me by the alarming growth of population figures. They were coupled with a foreseeable exhaustion of fossil fuels in the near future.
The result of both circumstances would provoke a probable catastrophe in the form of a global war.
I assume that we are, the western nations, the most to blame, for rapid exhaustion of fossil fuels.

The other part, the excess of population is more visible in the poor countries of the world today.
But even us, the western nations, have also an overpopulation of our own. We are also too many, once the oil would disappear, and the coal become much more scarce and dear.

Once we would be deprived of all that much energy we are expending at present, with the enormous load of our huge cities and the incredible sprawl of the populations around them, the crisis of energy would explode with all their might in our faces.

Then all these foreseen miseries into the future would cause the hate among us to explode. Not only among immigrant descendants and the old natives, but also among the natives themselves.
The hunger would erase the remaining varnish of civility and all would become harden criminals, if not cannibals.

As these would not become a sudden catastrophe, the first steps into the abyss would produce the first clashes between natives and immigrants.
I am talking in abstract terms. All this is just a theory, a catastrophic nightmare.

In general, I do not have bad feelings for immigrants, either Muslims or people of black skin. I had some friends among Africans, and I was helping a few of them. But I had not enough economic means to help them any better.

As I am worried about overpopulation in general, I also worry about our immigrants having many children.
I had been always worried by this question since I was an adolescent and watched the poor neighborhoods of my city full of barefoot almost naked children. Now, sixty years later, today, when I watch some videos of small villages in Africa full of children, this made me recall this experience I had when I was 12 years of age and visited a poor neighborhood.

I was also poor, but I was a single child. I was worried by being hungry most of the time, one day after the other, and I thought sadly, "the most poor is the people is most children they have." But they were all natives children, not immigrants.
We were so poor them, that we had not any immigrants in my country. Then, as I was shocked, I sort of swore to myself "I would never breed many children, for the most children we have, the most people would suffer of hunger."
I am impressed for the hunger of my own infancy.
Times were so bad, that some people emigrated illegally to Venezuela in small sail fishing boats. We had not motors them in our fishing boats. When I heard tell of this emigration, my reasoning was then, "they emigrate because we are too many people here, in this island. They had been breeding too many children." So, you can see that I had reasons to worry of overpopulation. Nowadays we have about 900,000 people in this island, while in my childhood it was only 300,000 people. If the exhaustion of fossil fuels become real, all the tourism industry will suddenly disappear. And this would be a catastrophe, so many people trapped here.

Then, all this considerations are due to my early experiences with hunger in childhood, and by the lot of children I had witnessed in the poor neighborhoods of my infancy.

I am not hating anybody, but I am worried with the future. All this comes to me, because I do not feel optimistic. Perhaps is a sort of illness I suffer, not being optimist.

If this pessimistic predictions come true, the picture could be much worse that I could ever had imagined. And we will all to blame for this; only the poor people of the world. For, where is the wisdom or our leaders?
I had not heard anyone telling a word about the future couple with overpopulation.
Yours,
John Galaor
.
 
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  • #205
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