News Palestine recognized by the UN as a non-member observer state

[wuliheron]

Just a minor point, but the US pays for half the cost of the UN. The idea the UN can make decisions the US vehemently disagrees with is absurd. The Palestinians might leverage the UN to their advantage to some degree, but nothing that would seriously threaten Israeli interests without US consent.

 

[Jack21222]

A major concern for the Americans is that the Palestinians might use their new status to try to join the International Criminal Court. That prospect particularly worries the Israelis, who fear that the Palestinians might press for an investigation of their practices in the occupied territories.

I understand why this worries the Israelis, but I do not understand why it worries anybody else. There are only 2 possibilities: either Israel has committed war crimes or it hasn't. If Israel hasn't committed war crimes, they have nothing to fear from the ICC. If they have committed war crimes, there should be justice (and they should stop). So, what's the problem there?

 

[SW VandeCarr]

And Americans were still happily exterminating heathen natives, well into the nineteenth century.

And who were these "Americans"? They were mostly recent European immigrants seeking land as was already stated. Some of these immigrants were Norwegians who settled in significant numbers in places like Minnesota.

 

[nanosiborg]

It gets down to the very definition of a nation. Is it the physical borders of the country or is a nation a group of people. If people are using different definitions, then the discussion isn't going to be particularly rational - and one can just pick their definition based on their viewpoint of the issues.

If it's the physical borders, then Israel should have consisted of all the people that lived in that area. If a democratic government, then both Jewish and Palestinian should have had the same rights.

If it's the group of people that are important, then the Jews in Israel are definitely a different group than the Palestinians and they can't exist in the same nation without one being consumed by the other just based on demographics and population growth.

[ ... ]

This is a very logical comment: whether they create one secular country for people from different religions and forget the concept of "Jews country" or simply they should create a "Jews State" and leave the non-Jews to live in peace in their part.

Neither of these seem to be an option for Israel as long as the anti-Israel anti-Jew views of militant Arab Muslim fundamentalists are, even just tacitly, accepted (which they seem to be) by a significant portion of Arab Muslims, especially Palestinian Arab Muslims.

You can not take the land and leave the owners of this land living in closed Ghettos beyond the walls!

It's a sad situation for the Palestinian refugees. They're between a rock and a hard place with few viable options. But then so are Israelis who want a secure Jewish state.

I would be surprised if Israel ever stops the ongoing Jewish settlement of Palestine. The construction of 3000 new Israeli homes in the West Bank has recently been approved by the Israeli government. It looks to me like the current situation, and unfortunate ghettoization and squeezing out of Arab Muslim Palestinians can be continued by Israel indefinitely.

 

[nanosiborg]

60% of Palestinian were forced to leave their own country in 1948 to the Arab countries. We all know what was their fate after 60 years: refugees camps without the basic rights to work or to own houses, massacres ...etc.

Yes, it's been very difficult for indigent Palestinian refugees. But then this is the plight of indigent people anywhere. They're pretty much exploited and marginalized. Some refugees have managed to build decent lives. Many, or most, haven't. This isn't entirely, imo, the fault of Israelis, or entirely due to the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. It's also, imo, a function of Arab Muslim culture and religion.

It is ethic cleansing to ask people living for centuries on their land just because other group of people want to establish "pure Jews country"!

I guess you could call it ethnic cleansing of sorts. A similar thing happened to the indigenous people of North America due to European expansion.

But the Jews, themselves being victimized throughout history, are in a situation where they're surrounded by lots of Arab Muslims who want to destroy them. So, I don't see that Israel has much choice but to continue the current situation indefinitely.

That's the practical side of the situation. As for the moral arguments, I think somebody mentioned that they're disallowed PF. With good reason, I think, as discussions along those lines often degenerate into emotional rants.

After much consideration, I support the position and policies of the Netanyahu administration. I think the world would do a lot more to help disadvantaged Palestinians if they would denounce Hamas and other such organizations.

... as you mentioned the old Jews of Palestine were forced to be christian and them they were forced to be Muslims, so the current Palestinian are the ancestors of all nations lived in Palestine since 10000 years including the Jews.

Just because a group of people live in your place before 2000 years, this do not give you the right to get off from complete nation! Otherwise this is applicable to all modern nations including the American.

I don't disagree with your points. But it's like beating a dead horse (not in the sense that that would be any less productive, in a literal sense, than beating a live horse ... but, figuratively, in the sense that, as I think wuliheron mentioned, the question of who runs Palestine is a done deal). Israel is there to stay, and settlement expansion will continue. The Jews wanted Palestine, and with the help of some powerful allies they took it. Whether this was right or wrong in some moral context is, for all practical purposes, irrelevant.

 

[Ma2012]

Neither of these seem to be an option for Israel as long as the anti-Israel anti-Jew views of militant Arab Muslim fundamentalists are, even just tacitly, accepted (which they seem to be) by a significant portion of Arab Muslims, especially Palestinian Arab Muslims.

It's a sad situation for the Palestinian refugees. They're between a rock and a hard place with few viable options. But then so are Israelis who want a secure Jewish state.

I would be surprised if Israel ever stops the ongoing Jewish settlement of Palestine. The construction of 3000 new Israeli homes in the West Bank has recently been approved by the Israeli government. It looks to me like the current situation, and unfortunate ghettoization and squeezing out of Arab Muslim Palestinians can be continued by Israel indefinitely.

You insist that Palestinian are Arab Muslims militants, but this is not the topic here. May be you should check your information again? Anyway, we have to stick to the main topic.

I do believe that you present a valid and important point about the long term strategy of the current Israeli government and the real reason behind their opposition to Palestinian state.

 

[Evo]

As always, these threads go downhill.