Parallel and perpendicular vectors

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around resolving forces acting on a mass sliding down a parabolic slope described by the equation y=ax^2+bx+c. The participants are examining the components of gravitational force that are parallel and perpendicular to the direction of motion along the curve, with specific attention to the mathematical representation of these forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to derive the components of the gravitational force acting on the mass by using vector calculus and unit vectors. There are questions about the correctness of their expressions and whether absolute values should be considered for certain terms. Some participants suggest expressing parameters in terms of known quantities like h and l.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants questioning the validity of their calculations and exploring potential mistakes in their reasoning. There is a recognition of the need for clarification regarding the signs of certain terms in the equations, but no consensus has been reached on the correct approach yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the assumption that the mass slides from x=0 to x=l without friction, and they are considering the implications of the parabola's shape and its parameters on the forces involved.

Gregg
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If a mass takes a path down a slope of a parabola. The force downward is its weight. I need to resolve the perpendicular and parallel (to direction of motion) forces.

y=ax^2+bx+c, it has a y intercept of h and a repeated root l. a>0. The mass slides from x=0 to x=l with no friction.

[itex]d\vec{r} = \left(<br /> \begin{array}{c}<br /> 1 \\<br /> 2ax+b<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)\text{dx}[/itex]

A unit vector in this direction:

[itex]\hat{u} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1+(2ax+b)^2}}\left(<br /> \begin{array}{c}<br /> 1 \\<br /> 2ax+b<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)[/itex]

To get the size of the component of the force parallel to the curve:

[itex]mg \cos (\theta) = mg\frac{(2ax+b)}{\sqrt{1+(2ax+b)^2}}[/itex]

[itex]mg \cos (\theta) \hat{u} = mg\frac{(2ax+b)}{\sqrt{1+(2ax+b)^2}} \frac{1}{\sqrt{1+(2ax+b)^2}}\left(<br /> \begin{array}{c}<br /> 1 \\<br /> 2ax+b<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right) = mg \frac{(2ax+b)}{1+(2ax+b)^2}\left(<br /> \begin{array}{c}<br /> 1 \\<br /> 2ax+b<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)[/itex]

I don't think this is right
 
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This can't be right because then

[itex]\int \vec{F}\cdot d\vec{r} = Mg(al^2 + bl) \ne Mgh[/itex]
 
Could someone have a look at this
 
Gregg said:
If a mass takes a path down a slope of a parabola. The force downward is its weight. I need to resolve the perpendicular and parallel (to direction of motion) forces.

y=ax^2+bx+c, it has a y intercept of h and a repeated root l. a>0. The mass slides from x=0 to x=l with no friction.

[itex]d\vec{r} = \left(<br /> \begin{array}{c}<br /> 1 \\<br /> 2ax+b<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)\text{dx}[/itex]

A unit vector in this direction:

[itex]\hat{u} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1+(2ax+b)^2}}\left(<br /> \begin{array}{c}<br /> 1 \\<br /> 2ax+b<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)[/itex]

To get the size of the component of the force parallel to the curve:

[itex]mg \cos (\theta) = mg\frac{(2ax+b)}{\sqrt{1+(2ax+b)^2}}[/itex]
There is a subtle mistake at play here. You want the magnitude of the parallel force component, i.e., its absolute value. So there should be a big absolute value sign on the r.h.s. in that last equation.

The absolute value is not an issue for m, g, and the square-root expression since those are all positive. But what about the 2ax+b term, is that negative or positive?

Hints:
1. We are only considering 0<x<l.
2. Express a and b each in terms of h and l, if you have not already done so.
[itex]mg \cos (\theta) \hat{u} = mg\frac{(2ax+b)}{\sqrt{1+(2ax+b)^2}} \frac{1}{\sqrt{1+(2ax+b)^2}}\left(<br /> \begin{array}{c}<br /> 1 \\<br /> 2ax+b<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right) = mg \frac{(2ax+b)}{1+(2ax+b)^2}\left(<br /> \begin{array}{c}<br /> 1 \\<br /> 2ax+b<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)[/itex]

I don't think this is right
test
 

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