Partial Derivative of Z: Step-by-Step Solution

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the partial derivatives of the function Z = y + x²y + x² + x³ + x⁴ + 5 with respect to x and y. Participants seek clarification on the concept of partial derivatives, the process of differentiation, and the implications of using orthogonal coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for a step-by-step solution for the partial derivatives of Z with respect to x and y.
  • Another participant explains that taking the partial derivative involves treating the other variable as a constant and differentiating normally.
  • A participant provides a formula for the partial derivative with respect to x, suggesting it results in 2xy + 2x + 3x² + 4x³.
  • Some participants express a desire for further clarification on the concept of orthogonal coordinates, with one explaining that orthogonal coordinates are independent and provide examples such as Cartesian, spherical, and cylindrical coordinates.
  • There is a discussion about treating constants during differentiation, with one participant emphasizing that constants should be ignored when differentiating with respect to a variable.
  • Another participant provides an example function and asks if the differentiation process is similar, questioning whether constants like 3 and 5 should be treated as such.
  • A later reply clarifies that constants do not need to be considered as variables during differentiation, providing a breakdown of how to treat constants in the context of partial derivatives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the method of treating other variables as constants during differentiation. However, there are varying interpretations and explanations regarding the implications of orthogonal coordinates and the treatment of constants, indicating some disagreement and uncertainty in understanding.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion about the definitions and implications of orthogonal coordinates, and there are unresolved questions regarding the step-by-step differentiation process, particularly in relation to constants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals seeking to understand partial derivatives, the concept of orthogonal coordinates, and the process of differentiation in multivariable calculus.

rovaniemi
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Hi everyone,

Z=y+x^2*y+x^2+x^3+x^4+5

I would like to find the partial derivative of:
diff(z,x) ?
diff(z,y)?

Kindly give me a step by step solution.

Hope to hear from you soon. Thanking you all in advance for your replies.
 
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What does it mean to take the partial derivative of a function?
 
The partial derivative is a "directional derivative" in one of the given coordinate directions. Since you are working in orthogonal coordinates you can ignore the ones not being used ...

Thus for diff(Z,x) you simply treat y as a constant and then differentiate wrt x as normal:
diff(Z,x) = 2xy + 2x + 3x^2 +4x^3.

Now you do diff(Z,y)!
 
Thank you ultrafastped for your reply. Could please explain what you meant by orthogonal corodinates? I would be highly grateful if you can show me step by step. Thank you.


UltrafastPED said:
The partial derivative is a "directional derivative" in one of the given coordinate directions. Since you are working in orthogonal coordinates you can ignore the ones not being used ...

Thus for diff(Z,x) you simply treat y as a constant and then differentiate wrt x as normal:
diff(Z,x) = 2xy + 2x + 3x^2 +4x^3.

Now you do diff(Z,y)!
 
rovaniemi said:
Could please explain what you meant by orthogonal corodinates?
Orthogonal coordinates are a special case of curvilinear coordinates. A set of orthogonal coordinates means that the coordinates that make up the basis of your coordinate system are, well, orthogonal. The most obvious example (and the case in question) is the Cartesian system defined by the ##\left\{i,j,k\right\}## basis.

Other examples you may have seen include spherical and cylindrical coordinates.
 
rovaniemi said:
I would be highly grateful if you can show me step by step. Thank you.

It's easier than it seems!

If you have the function

y = 3 + x^2*3 + x^2 + x^3 + x^4 + 5

Then what is dy/dx?

Now, I'm sure you can find that, so once you do, since you considered 3 to be a constant, do the same for y when taking the partial derivative dz/dx of the function

Z=y+x^2*y+x^2+x^3+x^4+5

3 is just like y. You treat it like a constant. Then to find dz/dy, just treat x as a constant.
 
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To follow up on orthogonality: orthogonal means independence.

If two vectors are orthogonal then they are independent and this translates to the situation where changing one vector won't have any impact on changing the other.

In a non-orthogonal situation, changing one quantity will change another in the general situation.
 
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Mentallic said:
It's easier than it seems!

If you have the function

y = 3 + x^2*3 + x^2 + x^3 + x^4 + 5

Then what is dy/dx?

Now, I'm sure you can find that, so once you do, since you considered 3 to be a constant, do the same for y when taking the partial derivative dz/dx of the function

Z=y+x^2*y+x^2+x^3+x^4+5

3 is just like y. You treat it like a constant. Then to find dz/dy, just treat x as a constant.

Thank you so much for the reply.
When
y = 3 + x^2*3 + x^2 + x^3 + x^4 + 5

Should the answer be like this:
dy/dx =6x +2x+3x^2+4x^3 when i consider 3 as constant and is it like 5(number alone without x or y variable) should also be ignored.
 
You don't need to "consider 3 as constant"- it is constant!

What they mean is that z= 3xy+ 2x^2- 4xy^2+ x^2y^2, would be thought of as
1) (differentiating with respect to x) z= Ax+ Bx^2- Cx+ Dx^2, where A= 3y, B= 2, C= 4y^2, and D= y^2 are "constants", so that z_x= A+ 2Bx- C+ 2Dx= 3y+ 4x- y^2+ 2y^2x.

2) (differentiating with respect to y) z= Ay+ B- Cy^2+ Dy^2, where now A= 3x, B= 2x^2, C= 4x, and D= x^2 are "constants", so that z_y= A- 2Cy+ 2Dy= 3x- 2x^2y+ 2x^2y.
 

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