Partial differentiation of integral

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the partial differentiation of a functional defined by an integral involving two functions, ##u## and ##u^*##, both dependent on a position vector ##\mathbf{r}##. Participants explore the implications of treating these functions as independent and the application of functional derivatives in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a function defined by an integral and seeks to find the differential expression for it, questioning the independence of ##u## and ##u^*##.
  • Another participant explains the concept of functional derivatives and provides a formal definition, noting that the derivative of a function with respect to an independent function is zero.
  • A participant raises a concern regarding the dimensional consistency of the expression for the functional derivative, pointing out that the left-hand side is dimensionless while the right-hand side has dimensions of inverse volume.
  • Another participant responds to the dimensionality concern, stating that the operator involved carries units that are a product of the inverse units of the function and the inverse volume.
  • A later reply indicates that the participant has understood the explanation provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the dimensionality of the functional derivative, indicating a lack of consensus on this aspect. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of dimensional consistency in the context of functional derivatives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to the assumptions about the independence of functions and the dimensional analysis of functional derivatives, which may depend on specific definitions and contexts.

blue_leaf77
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If I have a function

##f(u,u^*) = \int u^* \hat{O} u d^3\mathbf{r}##

both ##u## and ##u^*## are functions of ##\mathbf{r}## where ##\mathbf{r}## position vector, ##\hat{O}## some operation which involves ##\mathbf{r}## (e.g. differentiation), and the star sign denotes complex conjugate. Now I want to find the differential expression for ##f##, namely ##df = \frac{\partial f}{\partial u}du + \frac{\partial f}{\partial u^*}du^*##. I think ##u## and ##u^*## are independent, right? When I have to calculate the partial derivative of ##f## w.r.t. ##u^*##, it seems that I simply need to bring the differentiation inside the integral and differentiate only ##u^*## which gives me

##\int \hat{O} u d^3\mathbf{r}##,

is this also justified? If yes how should I calculate ##\frac{\partial f}{\partial u}##?
Any help is appreciated.
 
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You are computing what is known as the functional derivative. There is a formal definition given in the wiki, but the subsequent development leads to the chain rule and the practical rule that

$$ \frac{\delta u(\mathbf{r})}{\delta u(\mathbf{r}')} = \delta^3(\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}').$$

The derivative of a function by an independent function is zero, e.g., ##\delta u^*(\mathbf{r})/\delta u(\mathbf{r}')=0##.

Applying these to your functional above gives

$$ \frac{\delta f( u,u^*) }{\delta u^*(\mathbf{r})} = \int \delta^3(\mathbf{r}'-\mathbf{r}) \hat{O} u(\mathbf{r}')d^3\mathbf{r}' = \hat{O} u(\mathbf{r}).$$

However

$$ \frac{\delta f( u,u^*) }{\delta u(\mathbf{r})} = \int u^*(\mathbf{r}')\hat{O} \delta^3(\mathbf{r}'-\mathbf{r}) d^3\mathbf{r}' ,$$

where if ##\hat{O}## is a differential operator it will generally act on the delta function, so we can't automatically simplify this. In practice, the function ##u^*## will satisfy some integrability condition so that we can integrate this by parts, deriving an expression where an operator acts on ##u^*## and we can perform the integral using the delta function (without any operator acting on it).

You might want to try this out for some examples where ##\hat{O}## is a gradient or Laplacian to see how it works.
 
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Thanks that very helpful, but the expression
fzero said:
$$ \frac{\delta u(\mathbf{r})}{\delta u(\mathbf{r}')} = \delta^3(\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}').$$
doesn't seem to have correctly matched dimensions on both sides, the LHS is dimensionless, while the RHS has a dimension of inverse volume.
 
blue_leaf77 said:
Thanks that very helpful, but the expression

doesn't seem to have correctly matched dimensions on both sides, the LHS is dimensionless, while the RHS has a dimension of inverse volume.

This is a consequence of the definition of the operation. The operator ##\delta/\delta f## carries units which are the product of the inverse units of ##f## with the units of the inverse volume. You should be able to see this by looking at the rigorous definition that uses the test function ##\phi##.
 
Alright, I got it.
 

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