Partial Differentiation Question

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem in partial differentiation, specifically involving the function z = 1/(x² + y² - 1). Participants are tasked with demonstrating a specific relationship involving partial derivatives of z with respect to x and y.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the meaning of the notation x ∂z/∂x, with some confirming it indicates multiplication. Initial attempts to compute the partial derivatives are noted, but there are corrections regarding their accuracy. The use of the chain rule is suggested for finding the derivatives.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on the correct approach to take, including the suggestion to rewrite z in a different form to facilitate differentiation. There is an ongoing exploration of the correct derivatives and notation, with some participants expressing uncertainty about their previous calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of familiarity with partial differentiation, indicating that some are new to the topic. There is a focus on notation and the implications of the problem setup, with questions about whether additional substitutions are necessary.

FaraDazed
Messages
347
Reaction score
2

Homework Statement


if z=\frac{1}{x^2+y^2-1} . Show that x \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} + y \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} = -2z(1+z)

Homework Equations


n/a

The Attempt at a Solution


I am extremely new to partial differentiation, I can get my head around questions where they just give you the function and ask for the partial wrt to any of the variables but have not come across a problem like this and am a little unsure of the notation, does x \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} litterally mean x multipled with the partial wrt x ?

First what I did was to find the partial derivatives the question asks for so done them below.
<br /> \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = \frac{-2}{x^3+y^2-1} \\<br /> \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} = \frac{-2}{x^2+y^3-1} \\<br />

So if it just means x multiplied by... then wouldn't it just become...
<br /> x \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = \frac{-2x}{x^3+y^2-1} \\<br /> y \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} = \frac{-2y}{x^2+y^3-1} \\<br />

Or do I need to solve for x and y and substitute that into the above for x and y?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Yes, the notation ##x \frac{\partial z}{\partial x}## means multiply the partial derivative by ##x##. So you have the right idea but you haven't computed ##\partial z/\partial x## or ##\partial z/\partial y## correctly.
 
FaraDazed said:

Homework Statement


if z=\frac{1}{x^2+y^2-1} . Show that x \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} + y \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} = -2z(1+z)

Homework Equations


n/a

The Attempt at a Solution


I am extremely new to partial differentiation, I can get my head around questions where they just give you the function and ask for the partial wrt to any of the variables but have not come across a problem like this and am a little unsure of the notation, does x \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} litterally mean x multipled with the partial wrt x ?
Yes, that's all it means.
FaraDazed said:
First what I did was to find the partial derivatives the question asks for so done them below.
<br /> \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = \frac{-2}{x^3+y^2-1} \\<br /> \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} = \frac{-2}{x^3+y^3-1} \\<br />
Both of the above are wrong. It's easier to use the chain rule with z written as (x2 + y2 - 1)-1.
FaraDazed said:
So if it just means x multiplied by... then wouldn't it just become...
<br /> x \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = \frac{-2x}{x^3+y^2-1} \\<br /> y \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} = \frac{-2y}{x^2+y^3-1} \\<br />

Or do I need to solve for x and y and substitute that into the above for x and y?
 
FaraDazed said:

Homework Statement


if z=\frac{1}{x^2+y^2-1} . Show that x \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} + y \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} = -2z(1+z)

Homework Equations


n/a

The Attempt at a Solution


I am extremely new to partial differentiation, I can get my head around questions where they just give you the function and ask for the partial wrt to any of the variables but have not come across a problem like this and am a little unsure of the notation, does x \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} litterally mean x multipled with the partial wrt x ?

First what I did was to find the partial derivatives the question asks for so done them below.
<br /> \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = \frac{-2}{x^3+y^2-1} \\<br /> \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} = \frac{-2}{x^3+y^3-1} \\<br />

So if it just means x multiplied by... then wouldn't it just become...
<br /> x \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = \frac{-2x}{x^3+y^2-1} \\<br /> y \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} = \frac{-2y}{x^2+y^3-1} \\<br />

Or do I need to solve for x and y and substitute that into the above for x and y?

The answer to your bolded concern is yes.

Your derivatives look wrong though. Let's find ##\frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = z_x## first.

I suggest you re-write ##z## like so:

$$z = (x^2 + y^2 - 1)^{-1}$$

Now what is ##z_x##? Don't forget the chain rule!
 
Ah right ok thanks, will try again and post in a minute or so
 
Ok so using the chain rule for \frac{\partial z}{\partial x}

if h=x^2+y^2-1 and m=h^{-1}

Then
<br /> h&#039; \cdot m&#039; = 2x \cdot -h^{-2} = -2x(x^2+y^2-1)^{-2}<br />

And for \frac{\partial z}{\partial y}
<br /> -2y(x^2+y^2-1)^{-2}<br />

EDIT: Oh and is z_x a short hand notation for \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} then? As it does get a bit annoying writing them out all the time.
 
FaraDazed said:
Ok so using the chain rule for \frac{\partial z}{\partial x}

if h=x^2+y^2-1 and m=h^{-1}

Then
<br /> h&#039; \cdot m&#039; = 2x \cdot -h^{-2} = -2x(x^2+y^2-1)^{-2}<br />

And for \frac{\partial z}{\partial y}
<br /> -2y(x^2+y^2-1)^{-2}<br />

EDIT: Oh and is z_x a short hand notation for \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} then? As it does get a bit annoying writing them out all the time.

Yes. Your derivatives look okay now too.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K