Path integrals as usually presented - what does it tell us?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation and implications of path integrals in quantum mechanics, particularly focusing on the probability amplitude \langle x_1,t_1 | x_2,t_2 \rangle. Participants explore its relation to physically realizable states and the role of time in quantum observations, examining the mathematical formulations and their physical meanings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the physical interpretation of \langle x_1,t_1 | x_2,t_2 \rangle, noting that it does not seem to directly relate to quantum observations as it lacks dependence on the initial time t_1 in the calculation of probability amplitudes.
  • Another participant discusses the use of Heisenberg picture states and the expression for the amplitude \langle \phi | \psi \rangle, suggesting that the propagator \langle x_2, t_2 | x_1, t_2 \rangle is useful for calculations involving time evolution.
  • Further elaboration is provided on the integration of complete sets of states, with participants examining why one might choose to express the amplitude in terms of the propagator rather than evolving states to a common time.
  • There is a suggestion that using the propagator simplifies calculations by encapsulating all time evolution information, allowing for straightforward evaluation of amplitudes without repeated application of the Schrödinger equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the utility and interpretation of the propagator and the role of time in quantum mechanics. There is no consensus on the best approach to relate \langle x_1,t_1 | x_2,t_2 \rangle to physically realizable states or the implications of time differences in quantum observations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of relating mathematical formulations in quantum mechanics to physical interpretations, with participants pointing out limitations in the direct applicability of certain expressions and the assumptions involved in their derivations.

pellman
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Typical introductions to path integrals start with asking for the value of \langle x_1,t_1 | x_2,t_2 \rangle. This is usually interpreted as the probability amplitude of observing a particle at x_2 at time time t_2 given that it is located at x_1 at t_1.

But is this so? I am having trouble relating this to the theory in terms of physically realizable states. Exact position states are not normalizable. So suppose we have a wave function \Psi (x,t) which is a solution to our Schrödinger equation and satisfies the desired initial conditions. It can be considered as the expansion of an abstract state |\Psi(t)\rangle in the basis |x\rangle, which are eigenstates of the (time-independent) position operator, so that \Psi (x,t)=\langle x|\Psi(t)\rangle. The time-dependence can be shifted to the basis states by going to the Heisenberg picture so that we have basis states |x,t\rangle that are eigenstates of the time-dependent Heisenberg picture position operator. \Psi (x,t)=\langle x,t|\Psi\rangle. Both cases can be expressed as \langle x|e^{-iHt}|\Psi\rangle.

But when we ask the question of quantum observation, we don't get something which looks like \langle x_1,t_1 | x_2,t_2 \rangle. Which is: given a system in a state corresponding to wave function \Psi (x,t_1) at time t_1, what is the probability amplitude of observing the system in state \Phi(x,t_2) at time t_2?

The answer is

\int \Phi(x,t_2)^* \Psi(x,t_2)d^3 x

But t_1 doesn't enter into this calculation, at least not directly. It only enters as the initial condition for our solution Psi of the Schrödinger equation. Once we have that solution, we know the state time-evolved to t_2 and then calculate the inner product at that time t_2. (and if we know the time-dependence of \Phi we can calculate this integral at any time. It is time-independent.)

So what sort of question about physically realizable states is \langle x_1,t_1 | x_2,t_2 \rangle the answer to? or what question does \langle x_1,t_1 | x_2,t_2 \rangle help us solve?

Or, even, what is a quantum question which depends on a time difference t_2 - t_1 ?
 
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pellman said:
But when we ask the question of quantum observation, we don't get something which looks like \langle x_1,t_1 | x_2,t_2 \rangle. Which is: given a system in a state corresponding to wave function \Psi (x,t_1) at time t_1, what is the probability amplitude of observing the system in state \Phi(x,t_2) at time t_2?

If ##|\psi\rangle## and ##|\phi\rangle## are Heisenberg picture states, this amplitude can be written as
\langle \phi | \psi \rangle
Inserting complete sets of states,
\langle \phi | \psi \rangle = \int dx_2 \int dx_1 \langle \phi | x_2, t_2 \rangle \langle x_2, t_2 | x_1, t_2 \rangle \langle x_1, t_1 | \psi \rangle
This is why the propagator ##\langle x_2, t_2 | x_1, t_2 \rangle## is useful.
 
The_Duck said:
Inserting complete sets of states,
\langle \phi | \psi \rangle = \int dx_2 \int dx_1 \langle \phi | x_2, t_2 \rangle \langle x_2, t_2 | x_1, t_2 \rangle \langle x_1, t_1 | \psi \rangle
This is why the propagator ##\langle x_2, t_2 | x_1, t_2 \rangle## is useful.

why would we want to use

\langle \phi | \psi \rangle = \int dx_2 \int dx_1 \langle \phi | x_2, t_2 \rangle \langle x_2, t_2 | x_1, t_2 \rangle \langle x_1, t_1 | \psi \rangle

? Why not use

\langle \phi | \psi \rangle = \int dx_1 \langle \phi | x_1, t \rangle \langle x_1, t | \psi \rangle
 
pellman said:
why would we want to use

\langle \phi | \psi \rangle = \int dx_2 \int dx_1 \langle \phi | x_2, t_2 \rangle \langle x_2, t_2 | x_1, t_2 \rangle \langle x_1, t_1 | \psi \rangle

? Why not use

\langle \phi | \psi \rangle = \int dx_1 \langle \phi | x_1, t \rangle \langle x_1, t | \psi \rangle

Sure, that is also a valid way of rewriting this amplitude. Computing it in this form requires you to evolve one or both states to the common time ##t## using the Schrödinger equation.

Solving for the propagator ##\langle x_2, t_2 | x_1, t_2 \rangle## is like solving the Schrödinger equation once and for all. The propagator captures all information about time evolution in the system of interest. Once you have it you can plug it into the equation I gave above and straightforwardly calculate ##\langle \phi | \psi \rangle## for any ##|\psi\rangle## and ##|\phi\rangle##, without solving the Schrödinger equation again.
 
Ok. I'll buy that. Thanks.
 

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