PDE 2Ux + 3Uy + U = 0 with change of variables V(x,y)=ln[U(x,y)]

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the partial differential equation (PDE) 2Ux + 3Uy + U = 0 using the change of variables V(x,y) = ln[U(x,y)]. Participants explore the implications of this transformation, the assumptions made during the solution process, and the nature of the general solution derived from it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of dividing both sides of the PDE by U, expressing concern about the assumption that U is not zero and noting that this could exclude a potential solution where U = 0.
  • There is discussion about the reasoning behind setting V(x,y) = f(x) to find a particular solution to the non-homogeneous equation 2Vx + 3Vy = -1, with some participants expressing uncertainty about the existence of such a solution that depends solely on x.
  • Participants explore the relationship between the expressions exp[f(3x-2y)] and g(3x-2y), with some noting that while g must be positive due to the nature of the exponential function, it can still be treated as an arbitrary function in the context of the solution.
  • Some participants emphasize that the general solution should be stated as U = exp(-x/2) g(3x-2y), where g is an arbitrary non-negative function, highlighting the restrictions imposed by the logarithmic transformation.
  • There is a suggestion that if the method of setting V(x,y) = f(x) fails, one could alternatively try a function of y, indicating that there is no guarantee that any specific approach will work in finding particular solutions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of agreement regarding the assumptions made in the solution process, particularly concerning the treatment of U and the nature of the function g. There is no consensus on the implications of these assumptions, and multiple viewpoints remain regarding the validity of the steps taken in the solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the method of solution may miss solutions where U = 0, and there is an acknowledgment that the assumptions made about the positivity of g could restrict the generality of the solution. The discussion highlights the potential limitations of the approach taken in the context of the PDE.

kingwinner
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[note: Ux=∂U/∂x, Uy=∂U/∂y]

Example: Solve the partial differential equation 2Ux + 3Uy + U = 0 by using the change of variables V(x,y)=ln[U(x,y)]

Solution:
Vx = Ux/U
Vy = Uy/U

2Ux + 3Uy + U = 0
Dividing both sides by U, we have
2Ux/U + 3Uy/U + 1 = 0
=> 2Vx + 3Vy +1 = 0
=> 2Vx + 3Vy = -1

The corresponding homogeneous equation has the general solution V = f(3x-2y) where f is arbitrary function.

2Vx + 3Vy = -1
Set V(x,y)=f(x)
=> 2f ' + 0 = -1
=> f ' = -1/2
=> f= -x/2 + C
=> f= -x/2 (take C=0)
Therefore, a particular solution to 2Vx + 3Vy = -1 is V = -x/2

So the general solution to 2Vx + 3Vy = -1 is V = -x/2 + f(3x-2y)
=> the general solution to the original PDE is U = exp(-x/2) exp[f(3x-2y)] = exp(-x/2) g(3x-2y)

===============================
Now, I don't understand the parts in red:

1) In the solution, they divided both sides by U. Why is this always allowed? How do we know that U is not 0?

2) For the part of finding a particular solution to 2Vx + 3Vy = -1, they first set V(x,y)=f(x). What is the logic behind this step? Why would this lead us to a particular solution? I just don't get the idea.

3) At the end, they claimed that the general solution to the original PDE is
U = exp(-x/2) exp[f(3x-2y)]
i.e. U= exp(-x/2) g(3x-2y) (final answer)
I don't understand why exp[f(3x-2y)] can be replaced by g(3x-2y). Why do we have to do that? Is g here an arbitrary function?

Could someone please kindly explain? Any help is greatly appreciated!:smile:
 
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kingwinner said:
[note: Ux=∂U/∂x, Uy=∂U/∂y]

Example: Solve the partial differential equation 2Ux + 3Uy + U = 0 by using the change of variables V(x,y)=ln[U(x,y)]

Solution:
Vx = Ux/U
Vy = Uy/U

2Ux + 3Uy + U = 0
Dividing both sides by U, we have
2Ux/U + 3Uy/U + 1 = 0
=> 2Vx + 3Vy +1 = 0
=> 2Vx + 3Vy = -1

The corresponding homogeneous equation has the general solution V = f(3x-2y) where f is arbitrary function.

2Vx + 3Vy = -1
Set V(x,y)=f(x)
=> 2f ' + 0 = -1
=> f ' = -1/2
=> f= -x/2 + C
=> f= -x/2 (take C=0)
Therefore, a particular solution to 2Vx + 3Vy = -1 is V = -x/2

So the general solution to 2Vx + 3Vy = -1 is V = -x/2 + f(3x-2y)
=> the general solution to the original PDE is U = exp(-x/2) exp[f(3x-2y)] = exp(-x/2) g(3x-2y)

===============================
Now, I don't understand the parts in red:

1) In the solution, they divided both sides by U. Why is this always allowed? How do we know that U is not 0?

2) For the part of finding a particular solution to 2Vx + 3Vy = -1, they first set V(x,y)=f(x). What is the logic behind this step? Why would this lead us to a particular solution? I just don't get the idea.

3) At the end, they claimed that the general solution to the original PDE is
U = exp(-x/2) exp[f(3x-2y)]
i.e. U= exp(-x/2) g(3x-2y) (final answer)
I don't understand why exp[f(3x-2y)] can be replaced by g(3x-2y). Why do we have to do that? Is g here an arbitrary function?

Could someone please kindly explain? Any help is greatly appreciated!:smile:

Regarding dividing by U, you have already assumed U not zero when you made the substitution V(x,y)=ln[U(x,y)]. This means your method may miss a possible solution U = 0. This is, in fact, a solution although likely uninteresting.

On setting V(x,y) = f(x), you are looking for any particular solution on the nonhomogeneous equation. So you are trying to see if perchance a pure function of x works. Luckily, it does.
You can check that V = -x/2 works.

As to why exp(-x/2) exp[f(3x-2y)] = exp(-x/2) g(3x-2y), you are just observing that if f can be anything, so can exp(f). g can't be completely arbitrary; it would have to be positive. But you can get any such g by taking f = ln(g).

In the end, sometimes although your steps rule out, for example, g being negative, it may turn out that in the equation itself it may be OK for g to be negative. You can check that by seeing if it satisfies the equation with arbitrary g.
 
LCKurtz said:
Regarding dividing by U, you have already assumed U not zero when you made the substitution V(x,y)=ln[U(x,y)]. This means your method may miss a possible solution U = 0. This is, in fact, a solution although likely uninteresting.

On setting V(x,y) = f(x), you are looking for any particular solution on the nonhomogeneous equation. So you are trying to see if perchance a pure function of x works. Luckily, it does.
You can check that V = -x/2 works.

As to why exp(-x/2) exp[f(3x-2y)] = exp(-x/2) g(3x-2y), you are just observing that if f can be anything, so can exp(f). g can't be completely arbitrary; it would have to be positive. But you can get any such g by taking f = ln(g).

In the end, sometimes although your steps rule out, for example, g being negative, it may turn out that in the equation itself it may be OK for g to be negative. You can check that by seeing if it satisfies the equation with arbitrary g.

1) Then that looks even worse to me, it is a very strong restriction. Why can we assume that U is always non-negative in this PDE?

2) To find a particular solution to the PDE 2Vx + 3Vy = -1, they set V(x,y)=f(x). But why can they be so sure that a solution of a function that only depends on x even EXISTS? What if it fails, then what else can we do? Does this method always work for finding particular solutions to linear non-homogeneous first order PDEs?

3) I think that typically:
Every function of the form exp[f(3x-2y)] can be expressed in the form g(3x-2y), and every function of the form g(3x-2y) can be expressed in the form exp[f(3x-2y)] by taking f=ln(g). And I think that's why they can replace exp[f(3x-2y)] by g(3x-2y).
But exp(.) is always positive, so I think g here is an arbitrary function, but MUST be positive.

To be precise, we should say that the general solution is U = exp(-x/2) g(3x-2y) where g is an arbitrary non-negative function, right?


Thank you! :)
 
kingwinner said:
1) Then that looks even worse to me, it is a very strong restriction. Why can we assume that U is always non-negative in this PDE?

Because V(x,y)=ln[U(x,y)], and V, U are real functions?
 
kingwinner said:
1) Then that looks even worse to me, it is a very strong restriction. Why can we assume that U is always non-negative in this PDE?

2) To find a particular solution to the PDE 2Vx + 3Vy = -1, they set V(x,y)=f(x). But why can they be so sure that a solution of a function that only depends on x even EXISTS? What if it fails, then what else can we do? Does this method always work for finding particular solutions to linear non-homogeneous first order PDEs?

3) I think that typically:
Every function of the form exp[f(3x-2y)] can be expressed in the form g(3x-2y), and every function of the form g(3x-2y) can be expressed in the form exp[f(3x-2y)] by taking f=ln(g). And I think that's why they can replace exp[f(3x-2y)] by g(3x-2y).
But exp(.) is always positive, so I think g here is an arbitrary function, but MUST be positive.

To be precise, we should say that the general solution is U = exp(-x/2) g(3x-2y) where g is an arbitrary non-negative function, right?


Thank you! :)

(2) There may be a test that indicates a pure function of x works; I don't recall for sure.
But even if you don't know ahead of time it is going to work, nothing is lost by trying. And if that fails try a function of y. Nothing guarantees that either will work.

As I said before, your method of solution precludes g being negative. But that doesn't preclude the DE itself from allowing g to be negative. And, in fact, if you try substituting

U = exp(-x/2) g(3x-2y)

in the equation with no restriction on g except differentiability, you will see that it works.
 

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