Pendulum, conservation of energy theorem

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a simple pendulum problem involving the conservation of energy theorem. The original poster presents a scenario where a pendulum with a specified length and mass is analyzed at a given angle and speed, seeking to determine its speed at the lowest point of its swing.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply the conservation of energy principle, questioning the choice of reference height for potential energy. They explore the implications of setting different heights as zero potential energy.
  • Some participants suggest re-evaluating the potential energy term and calculating the height difference more accurately.
  • There is a discussion about the distance below the starting point and how it relates to the pendulum's position at different angles.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the potential errors in the original poster's calculations. There is a focus on clarifying the relationship between the pendulum's height and its potential energy, but no consensus has been reached on the correct approach or solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the reference point for potential energy can be arbitrarily chosen, which adds complexity to the problem. The original poster expresses uncertainty about their calculations and seeks clarification on the correct interpretation of the energy terms involved.

fishingspree2
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Homework Statement


A simple pendulum whose length is L=2 meters has a mass of m=2kg. When the angle between the pendulum and the vertical is 35 degrees, it has a speed of 1.2 m/s. Find the pendulum's speed when the pendulum is at its lowest height.


Homework Equations


K = 0.5mv2
U = mgh
E = K+U

The Attempt at a Solution


I arbitrarily set that h=0 when theta = 35 degrees
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4803/pend1cs5.jpg
NOTE: I have found the right answer by setting h=0 at the pendulum's lowest point, but I can't find the right answer when I set h=0 when theta = 35 degrees. Since h=0 can be arbitrarily set, I would like to know where is the mistake.

Since E = K + U, and U = 0
then E = K = 0.5mv2 = 0.5(2)(1.22)= 1.44 J
Now, at any point E = K + U = mg*-[L-Lcos(theta)] + 0.5mv2 = mg[Lcos(theta) - L] + 0.5mv2

Now, I am pretty sure the error is in what follows:
At the pendulum's lowest point, theta = 0 degrees
then mg[Lcos(theta) - L] + 0.5mv2 = 0.5mv2 = 1.44 J, solving for v gives back the 1.22 m/s, which is clearly not the answer. If i set theta = 35 degrees, I get v = 2.38 m/s, which is also not correct.

The correct answer is 2.9 m/s
Can anyone help?

Thank you
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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fishingspree2 said:
Since E = K + U, and U = 0
then E = K = 0.5mv2 = 0.5(2)(1.22)= 1.44 J
Now, at any point E = K + U = mg*-[L-Lcos(theta)] + 0.5mv2 = mg[Lcos(theta) - L] + 0.5mv2
The problem is in your PE term. You need the distance below the start point, which is where θ = 35 degrees. (Why not just calculate that distance for the bottom position? That's what your expression gives if you put θ=35.)
 
Doc Al said:
The problem is in your PE term. You need the distance below the start point, which is where θ = 35 degrees. (Why not just calculate that distance for the bottom position? That's what your expression gives if you put θ=35.)

hmm this is what I did: Since d = L cos theta and the pendulum's length = L, then the distance below the starting point is the -(distance between the blue sphere and the red horizontal line), which is = -(L - L*cos(theta)). Isn't that what we need?
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9596/pend2rj9.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
fishingspree2 said:
hmm this is what I did: Since d = L cos theta and the pendulum's length = L, then the distance below the starting point is the -(distance between the blue sphere and the red horizontal line), which is = -(L - L*cos(theta)). Isn't that what we need?
Sure. As long as θ = 35. (θ is your initial angle, not the final angle.)
 

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