Permanent Magnet vs. Electromagnet: What's the Difference?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences between permanent magnets and electromagnets, exploring their definitions, properties, and methods of magnetization. Participants also touch on related topics such as the materials that can be magnetized and the processes involved in creating magnets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that a permanent magnet retains its magnetic field without an external power source, while an electromagnet requires electric current to generate a magnetic field.
  • There is a discussion about the materials suitable for making permanent magnets, with some stating that iron can be magnetized while others argue that steel is necessary due to its remanence.
  • One participant describes a method for creating a permanent magnet by heating iron and striking it, while others discuss the stroking method for magnetizing steel objects.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and properties of magnetic materials, with questions raised about the magnetization of copper and the concept of remanence.
  • Some participants clarify that permanent magnets do not have current flowing through them, though there are discussions about bound currents in magnetic domains.
  • There are multiple inquiries about how to create both permanent magnets and electromagnets at home, with varying responses regarding the feasibility and methods.
  • One participant mentions the need for a strong electromagnet to effectively magnetize materials, while others provide anecdotal experiences with magnetization techniques.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views regarding the properties of materials suitable for magnetization, the methods for creating magnets, and the definitions of magnetic phenomena. No consensus is reached on several points, particularly regarding the suitability of iron versus steel for permanent magnets.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of understanding about the concepts discussed, indicating potential gaps in knowledge or differing interpretations of terms like remanence. Some statements rely on assumptions about material properties and methods that are not universally agreed upon.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring the fundamentals of magnetism, students seeking clarification on magnetic materials, and those curious about practical methods for creating magnets.

  • #91
If Earth's North pole And Magnet North pole can repel each other, then why does not the magnet become suspended in the air due to it's own and Earth repulsion force... ?
 
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  • #92
Xidike said:
If Earth's North pole And Magnet North pole can repel each other, then why does not the magnet become suspended in the air due to it's own and Earth repulsion force... ?

Try suspending the planet above a magnet! You just need suitable strong magnet..

http://www.gadgetvenue.com/levitating-spinning-globe-07201554/

Youtube video

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #93
I'm not asking about globe.. I'm just asking about a magnet..
 
  • #94
Why don't try thinking (in conjunction with reading around) instead of asking?
 
  • #95
Troll alert! Dude is 20 Years old according to his profile.
 
  • #96
Not fourteen?
 
  • #97
Probably time to close this thread?
 
  • #98
Yes please Mods.
 
  • #99
I third that motion

its just becoming very tiring trying to help someone who apparently doesn't seem to want to help him/herself

Mods, please do the honor

Dave
 
  • #100
How can you say that I myself can't want to learn ? Mein learn he to kar raha hon..
 
  • #101
Why Does the needle of Compass always points towards the North pole ?
 
  • #102
Xidike said:
Why Does the needle of Compass always points towards the North pole ?

because the other end always points to the south pole ... ;)

Dave
 
  • #103
Xidike said:
Why Does the needle of Compass always points towards the North pole ?

Which way should it point? Is there something wrong?
 
  • #104
Same sign repulsion and different sign attraction doesn't explain WHY.
That can be the main problem here. No one is giving a nice answer.
A nice Mechanistic would ask for a mechanic model that can explain magnet properties. Instead of that Magnetic phenomena are explain as a quasi magic force.
 
  • #105
When a magnet is broken into pieces, each piece is found to be a magnet with two poles.

image003.jpg


N===============S
N======S N======S


Why Does this Happens If We Broke Only South Pole then Why Does it is Automatically Converted To Both South And North Pole ?
 
  • #106
Sedilclue said:
Same sign repulsion and different sign attraction doesn't explain WHY.
That can be the main problem here. No one is giving a nice answer.
A nice Mechanistic would ask for a mechanic model that can explain magnet properties. Instead of that Magnetic phenomena are explain as a quasi magic force.

In 100+ posts there have been 'nice answers', 'easy answers', 'academic answers' and others. Unfortunately none has proved to be satisfactory.

In as far as it can't be explained without resorting to a force which cannot be seen then it could be looked upon as "quasi magic". There is not a 'mechanical' answer to the question any more than there is a 'mechanical' answer to why this table is solid. Why expect things to have answers that are easy and accurate at the same time?
 
  • #107
When a magnet is broken into pieces, each piece is found to be a magnet with two poles.

image003.jpg


N===============S
N======S N======S


Why Does this Happens If We Broke Only South Pole then Why Does it is Automatically Converted To Both South And North Pole ?
 
  • #108
Those other poles were there all along.
 
  • #109
Xidike said:
When a magnet is broken into pieces, each piece is found to be a magnet with two poles.

image003.jpg


N===============S
N======S N======S


Why Does this Happens If We Broke Only South Pole then Why Does it is Automatically Converted To Both South And North Pole ?

You can view the top single bar magnet as made up of lots and lots of tiny small magnets
creating an overall large bar magnet

D
 
  • #110
Why Does Magnet Become Demagnetized On Heating ??
 
  • #111
davenn said:
You can view the top single bar magnet as made up of lots and lots of tiny small magnets
creating an overall large bar magnet

D

How does the tiny small magnets form north pole at one end and the same tiny small magnets form south pole at other end ? Very odd .. huh..
 
  • #112
Xidike said:
How does the tiny small magnets form north pole at one end and the same tiny small magnets form south pole at other end ? Very odd .. huh..

nope, not odd at all.

the individual "particles" of iron that make up the magnet each have their own magnetic dipoles ( N and S) that when all combined and all aligned the same way, make up an overall larger magnet

and to answer your other Q about heat.
Excessive heat ( when the Curie Point) is reached, that alignment gets disrupted and the magnetic field can be weakened or even totally destroyed.

Dave
 
  • #113
It's "very odd" that you are still asking these questions. I can hardly believe Xidike is real. You are failing the Turing test, I think.
 
  • #114
davenn said:
nope, not odd at all.

the individual "particles" of iron that make up the magnet each have their own magnetic dipoles ( N and S) that when all combined and all aligned the same way, make up an overall larger magnet

and to answer your other Q about heat.
Excessive heat ( when the Curie Point) is reached, that alignment gets disrupted and the magnetic field can be weakened or even totally destroyed.

Dave

minor nitpick: the Curie point is a phase transition same as boiling or freezing. Its either all ferromagnetic, or its not.
 
  • #115
chill_factor said:
minor nitpick: the Curie point is a phase transition same as boiling or freezing. Its either all ferromagnetic, or its not.

Phase transitions are at a fixed temperature for pure substances but, in many mixtures, the transition can be over a wide range of temperatures - consider what happens in engine coolant mixtures. I would expect the same to apply to magnetic materials.
 
  • #116
Can magnetic lines of forces be seen ??
 
  • #117
Yes. When they vibrate at optical frequencies.
 
  • #118
sophiecentaur said:
Yes. When they vibrate at optical frequencies.

yup or indirectly when you place a bar magnet under a sheet of paper and sprinkle iron filings over the paper they will display the field lines :)

Dave

PS thanks for the backup, sophiecentaur
 
  • #119
I've given up on giving sensible answers. Looking at this guy's personal profile, I would suspect he's playing with an AI program for his contributions to this thread. He'll be asking whether magnetism ever affected your relations with your Mother next.
 
  • #120
if a conductor is placed in magnetic field then How can magnet cause the flow of current in that conductor ?
 

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