Phase flow is the one-parameter group of transformations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of phase flow as a one-parameter group of transformations in phase space, specifically focusing on proving the composition property and other group characteristics within the context of Hamiltonian systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the phase flow can be expressed as g^t:({\bf{p}(0),{\bf{q}(0))\longmapsto({\bf{p}(t),{\bf{q}(t)) and seek to prove that {g^t} forms a group.
  • One participant proposes that to show g^t\circ g^s=g^{t+s}, one can observe that both sides satisfy the same initial value problem, invoking the uniqueness of solutions to such problems.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the quantifiers used in the composition, wondering if t and s should be restricted to positive values or if they can be any real numbers.
  • Some participants discuss the associativity of the composition, demonstrating that (g^t\circ g^s) \circ g^r equals g^{(t+s)} \circ g^r and g^t \circ (g^s \circ g^r) equals g^{t+(s+r)}.
  • For the identity element, participants note that g^0 acts as the identity transformation, confirming that g^t is invertible with the inverse being g^{-t}.
  • One participant suggests an alternative approach to show invertibility by directly demonstrating that g^t\circ g^{-t}=g^0.
  • Another participant elaborates on the derivation of the equations governing the transformations, using Hamilton's equations to establish that the transformations satisfy the same initial value problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the properties of the phase flow and the approach to proving the group characteristics, but there are ongoing discussions regarding the clarity of certain mathematical expressions and the conditions under which the properties hold.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the appropriate quantifiers for the parameters t and s in the context of the composition, as well as the implications of the uniqueness of solutions in relation to the initial value problems being discussed.

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The phase flow is the one-parameter group of transformations of phase space

g^t:({\bf{p}(0),{\bf{q}(0))\longmapsto({\bf{p}(t),{\bf{q}(t)),

where {\bf{p}(t) and {\bf{q}}(t) are solutions of the Hamilton's system of equations corresponding to initial condition {\bf{p}}(0)and {\bf{q}}(0).

Show that \{g^t\} is a group.


Can anyone help me prove the composition?

g^t\circ g^s=g^{t+s}
 
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On the one hand, g^{t+s}(p_0,q_0)=(p(t+s),q(t+s)) where p and q are solutions of the Hamilton's system of equations corresponding to initial condition p_0 and q_0. On the other hand g^t\circ g^s(p_0,q_0)=g^t(p(s),q(s))=(p'(t),q'(t)) where p' and q' are solutions of the Hamilton's system of equations corresponding to initial condition p(s) and q(s). To show that (p(t+s),q(t+s))=(p'(t),q'(t)) for all s and t, observe that for s fixed, both sides satisfy the same initial value problem (in the variable t). By uniqueness of the solution to an initial value problem, you get the desired equality.
 


quasar987 said:
] To show that (p(t+s),q(t+s))=(p'(t),q'(t)) for all s and t, observe that for s fixed, both sides satisfy the same initial value problem (in the variable t). By uniqueness of the solution to an initial value problem, you get the desired equality.
Can you show that explicitly? I don't follow.

Associativity:

<br /> ( g^t\circ g^s) \circ g^r = g^{(t+s)} \circ g^r = g^{(t+s) +r} <br />

<br /> g^t\circ (g^s \circ g^r) = g^{t} \circ g^{(s+r)} = g^{t+(s +r)} <br />

Identity,

at t = 0
<br /> g^t:({\bf{p}(0),{\bf{q}(0))\longmapsto({\bf{p}(0), {\bf{q}(0)) <br />

Thus
<br /> g^0 \circ g^s = g^{(0+s)} =g^s<br /> <br /> g^s \circ g^0 = g^{(s+0)} =g^s<br />Invertible

reverse the sign of Hamiltonian = reverse time, so g^t is invertible and it follows that (g^t)^{-1}=g^{-t}, so g^t\circ g^{-1}=g^{t+(-t)} = g^0 for all t,s\in\mathbb{R}.

Is that correct? I'm not sure of the quantifiers are correct for the composition. Should it be t,s > 0 or t,s in R?
 
Last edited:


Your last post shows that all the group properties follow easily once you have

g^t\circ g^s=g^{t+s}.

I thought this is what you wer trying to show. Is it not?
 


Yes.

quasar987 said:
] To show that (p(t+s),q(t+s))=(p'(t),q'(t)) for all s and t, observe that for s fixed, both sides satisfy the same initial value problem (in the variable t). By uniqueness of the solution to an initial value problem, you get the desired equality.
Can you show that explicitly? I don't follow.The remainder of the post was just to see if there was anything wrong.
 


For invertibility, perhaps simpler is this:

g^t\circ g^{-t}=g^{-t}\circ g^{t}=g^0=\mathrm{id}

so g^t is invertible with inverse g^{-t}.
 


Fix s and set Q(t):=p(t+s), P(t):=p(t+s). Then, by the chain rule and the fact that q,p satisfy Hamilton's equations, we get

\frac{dQ}{dt}(t) =\frac{d}{dt}q(t+s)=\frac{dq}{dt}(t+s)=\frac{\partial H}{\partial p}(q(t+s),p(t+s))=\frac{\partial H}{\partial p}(Q(t),P(t))
-\frac{dP}{dt}(t) =-\frac{d}{dt}p(t+s)=-\frac{dp}{dt}(t+s)=\frac{\partial H}{\partial q}(Q(t),P(t))
Q(0)=q(0+s)=q(s), \ \ P(0)=p(0+s)=p(s)

And by definition of q',p',

\frac{dq&#039;}{dt}(t)=\frac{\partial H}{\partial p}(q&#039;(t),p&#039;(t))
-\frac{dp&#039;}{dt}(t)=\frac{\partial H}{\partial q}(q&#039;(t),p&#039;(t))
q&#039;(0)=q(s), \ \ p&#039;(0)=p(s)

So we see that Q,P satisfies the same initial value problem as q',p', so by uniqueness of the solution of such systems, it must be that Q=q' and P=p'. That is, g^{t+s}(q_0,p_0)=(g^t\circ g^s)(q_0,p_0)[/tex].
 

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