Admissions PhD Programs for Mathematical Physics (Experimental Condensed Matter Physics)

[CrysPhys]

Well those are all still top ranked Physics programs (except for maybe Rutgers) so

Well, if you give credence to US News & World Report (which I don't), here's their 2023 listing of the top US grad physics programs for condensed matter (no further partitioning for experimental though): https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/condensed-matter-rankings.

Rutgers squeaks in at #24 at the bottom of their list; whereas, Northwestern and University of Minnesota Twin Cities didn't make their list at all.

 

[Vanadium 50]

All the programs I seem to find are "competitive".

Every PhD program in the US is competitive. All of them.

 

[gwnorth]

All the programs I seem to find are "competitive".

PhD admissions are competitive for everyone irrespective of program ranking.

I was hoping that the University of Minnesota Twin Cities and Rutgers would be "safety" options.

There's no such thing as a "safety" when it comes to PhD admissions, just more likely and less likely. Minnesota and Rutgers would probably be less "reachy" than others.

I am hoping to have a more balanced list and I suspect from the discussion here that my list is too "Dream Heavy". Suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

The best sugggestion was already provided to you. Your best bet for a PhD admission is to find programs where you would be a strong research fit and that means finding potential advisors whose research matches your goals.

 

[advhaver]

Well, if you give credence to US News & World Report (which I don't)

I don't, either. I have talked to at least four professors at my college and one outside, all of whom also echo this. US News Rankings have little to do with the quality of the education they offer. 40% of the ranking is based on something they define as "academic reputation". How they derive this parameter is opaque at best. Fortunately, my parents haven't pressured me to choose a "highly ranked" program, so I could consider myself lucky.

 

[advhaver]

There's no such thing as a "safety" when it comes to PhD admissions, just more likely and less likely. Minnesota and Rutgers would probably be less "reachy" than others.

Fair enough. There are 200+ PhD programs in Experimental Condensed Matter in the US, including Georgia Tech, Penn State, U Wisconsin Madison, Ohio State University, Iowa State, Purdue, Washington - Seattle, North Carolina (Raleigh),... It will be very difficult to research each of them; hence I was wondering if I could get pointers as to which ones might be less "reachy".

 

[Vanadium 50]

It will be very difficult to research each of them

Which is about 0.01% of the work needed to do the research for your PhD dissertation. If this is too much, getting a PhD will be orders of magnitude worse. Maybe rethinking your goals is in order.

Otherwise, your best shot is to do that work, rather than to try and convince us to do the work for you.

 

[gwnorth]

Fair enough. There are 200+ PhD programs in Experimental Condensed Matter in the US, including Georgia Tech, Penn State, U Wisconsin Madison, Ohio State University, Iowa State, Purdue, Washington - Seattle, North Carolina (Raleigh),... It will be very difficult to research each of them; hence I was wondering if I could get pointers as to which ones might be less "reachy".

The ones at which you are a strong research fit. Admissions is holistic. They are going to look at your entire profile including your research experience and goals. It is entirely possible for an applicant with a stellar profile to be denied admission to a "low ranked" program because they are not a good research fit. It's equally possible for an applicant with a less stellar profile to be accepted for admission to a "high ranked" program because they are. You need to find programs where you're a good fit, and that goes beyond program rankings.

 

[WWGD]

The question is not about passion -- I am of course operating under the assumption that the student applying for a PhD program has passion for physics in general. So according to you, @marcusl and @Vanadium 50 , every student who has finished their bachelor's degree in physics knew exactly what precise area of physics they wanted to research after finishing one introductory course (keep in mind that all undergraduate physics courses are ultimately introductory courses), and after attending a few seminars in such a field.

But the physics field is vast -- so vast that it boggles my mind that any student (apart from a very few) would have the knowledge after completing a bachelor's degree to know the exact area they want to research in.

Let me give myself as an example. I was studying mathematics at the university. Even by the time I finished my third year of my undergraduate degree (and when I started to think about whether to apply to graduate school or not), I had no idea of the vastly different areas of research within math. After taking a full course in mathematical statistics, I became interested in wanting to study statistics in more detail and decided to essentially double major in math and statistics, and applied for a masters. But I did not have any illusion of what precise area of statistics I wanted to pursue research in until after I was accepted and enrolled in a Masters program.

Not every undergraduate, but rather those with piqued interest in going further into research. You would expected them to take the initiative to go that extra mile or two.

 

[advhaver]

The ones at which you are a strong research fit.

Thanks, this is an excellent idea. Muchas Gracias!

 

[berkeman]

Thanks, this is an excellent idea. Mucho Muchas Gracias!

LOL. Fixed that for you.

 

[WWGD]

Not every undergraduate, but rather those with piqued interest in going further into research. You would expected them to take the initiative to go that extra mile or two.

Sorry if this was too harsh, but I think I'm making a valid point. I recommend a bookin the topic that was helpful to me : " Getting what you came for".

 

[CrysPhys]

Not every undergraduate, but rather those with piqued interest in going further into research. You would expected them to take the initiative to go that extra mile or two.

Not too harsh at all. This is precisely the point that I and others have been arguing. A PhD program is not the right choice for every undergrad. In particular, it would be a mistake for an undergrad who does the minimum or just a bit above the minimum for their undergrad program. It works best if an undergrad decides, "This is my future goal, and a PhD program is the way to achieve it," rather than, "I'll enroll in a PhD program, and hope it has value."

 

[CrysPhys]

I recommend a bookin the topic that was helpful to me : " Getting what you came for".

Could you clarify what you mean here? I haven't a clue.

 

[WWGD]

Could you clarify what you mean here? I haven't a clue.

Sure, it was a recommendation for a book that outlines the process of getting a Masters or PhD, for the OP. Hopefully it will shed some light on how the process works and what's expected of them. :

 

[CrysPhys]

Thanks. All clear now.

 

[jbergman]

HI,

I am an International Student studying in the US (at a "liberal arts" small college ranked in the Top 20 as per US News Rankings). I will graduate in 2024 and intend to apply for PhD programs in Mathematical Physics starting October 2023 for admission in 2024.

GPA: I am a double major in Physics (3.9 GPA) and Mathematics (3.8 GPA), with an overall GPA of 3.85.

Research: As an international, I was not qualified for any REU. However, I have worked part-time as a research assistant with a college professor during the school year (May 2022 to now), including working full-time during the two summers (2022 and 2023). The 2021 summer was a washout due to Covid restrictions.

Recommendation Letters: I have three recommendation letters from Physics professors, including one for whom I have worked as a research assistant. I can also muster a 4th recommendation letter from a Maths professor who will be my senior thesis advisor in Maths.

GRE: I have not done any GREs. Should I focus on the subject GREs (Maths and Physics) as I will not have time to do all 3 (General, Physics and Maths)? At first glance, the requirements of most universities state that GRE is optional.

I found finding universities focusing on Mathematical Physics tough, so I tried to find professors who spend time in this area. I have managed to identify a few professors, generated a list of universities, and have no idea how to shortlist them. I haven't written to any of these professors, so I won't name them below (where two departments are listed, the same professor works in both).

1. Princeton (Mathematical Physics)
2. Chicago (Physics)
3. U Penn (Physics)
4. Duke (Physics)
5. Brown (Physics)
6. MIT (Physics and Applied Maths)
7. Columbia (APAM and Physics)
8. Harvard (Physics)
9. Stanford (Physics and SITP)
10. Cornell (Physics and Applied Maths)
11. Yale (Physics and Maths)
12. Northwestern (Maths)
13. Northwestern (ESAM and Physics)
14. Dartmouth (Physics)
15. UIUC (Physics)
16. U.C.LA (Physics)
17. Georgia Tech (Maths)
18. Georgia Tech (Physics)
19. University of Maryland - College Park (Physics)
20. University of Colorado - Boulder (Physics)

I haven't had time to research Johns Hopkins, U. Mich (Ann Arbor), Carnegie Mellon, Washington St. Louis, U.N.C Chapel Hill, U. Wisconsin (Madison), Penn State, Arizona State, Purdue, U.C Santa Barbara, U. Minn Twin Cities, N.C. State Uni, and U of Colorado Boulder.

Are there other universities I should be considering?

It has been exhausting, and I felt my list was very "dream heavy". That's partly because I started using the US News Ranking system to make this list.

Any pointers on how to reduce this list? Should I have started from colleges ranked 50-100 instead of 1-50?

And lastly, what are the opportunities in Mathematical Physics? I understand that academia is crowded, but does the industry hire PhDs in Mathematical Physics?

Thanks in advance.

I just wanted to say that as I understand it, in Physics departments, most of what I would call mathematical physics is done in high energy physics with work related to quantum field theory, string theory, and AdsCFT stuff. So you really should be looking into those fields and seeing which excite you.

However, in general, I think mathematical physics is more commonly done in math departments. So, in my opinion, you should look at what some mathematical physicists do in math departments and some people working on QFT or something similar do in physics departments and decide which you find more interesting.

 

[CrysPhys]

I just wanted to say that as I understand it, in Physics departments, most of what I would call mathematical physics is done in high energy physics with work related to quantum field theory, string theory, and AdsCFT stuff. So you really should be looking into those fields and seeing which excite you.

However, in general, I think mathematical physics is more commonly done in math departments. So, in my opinion, you should look at what some mathematical physicists do in math departments and some people working on QFT or something similar do in physics departments and decide which you find more interesting.

Your Post #76 is replying to the original question (Post #1). But this has been a long, convoluted thread, and the OP started shifting direction in Post #32 and changed course in Post #38. Mathematical physics is no longer the end goal; experimental condensed-matter physics is.

Since my only exposure is in Condensed Matter Physics, I started looking for professors working in Experimental Condensed Matter at universities known for their condensed matter programs, even if the research being done wasn't in what I have worked on at my research assistant internship.

After talking to the professors at my college, I understand that I should focus on my primary interest (Physics) as I can still study Mathematical Physics at University as part of my PhD Prep (pre-PhD). So there is no need to select universities because they have Mathematical Physics as part of the Physics department. A college like Northwestern (for example) would permit me to study Mathematical Physics (MP) as part of (or alongside) my PhD in Experimental Condensed Matter Physics even though MP is part of their Mathematics Department. So MP is not an issue.

I would be much obliged if anyone could offer any input on the universities mentioned in my earlier post or suggest other universities known for their work in Experimental Condensed Matter Physics (E-CMP).

 

[advhaver]

experimental condensed-matter physics

LOL. Fixed that for you.

The ones at which you are a strong research fit. Admissions is holistic.

Otherwise, your best shot is to do that work, rather than to try and convince us to do the work for you.

Sorry for disappearing for several months. I was busy.

To end this thread, I finished my applications by the 15th of December. I got my first admit (U Chicago) yesterday. I await responses from the other universities before making up my mind. Thanks for all your help.

My takeaways:
1. Manage your time. I did not do a perfect job. I need a lot of improvement. I missed out on a few applications due to poor time management.
2. Talk to every professor you know. Don't be afraid to "cold call." I emailed several and was surprised that so many responded. Many of them asked me to read up on a topic and set up a second remote meeting to question me on the matter they asked me to read. This was a very pleasant exercise.
3. Keep your head down and work. Even after my applications were all out (December 15th), I continued to work on my research through Christmas. I suspect that professors get an intuition about the depth of your interest when they talk to you.
4. Do not forget to thank every professor you talk to sincerely. Many have very busy lives, and taking 20-30 minutes to help an unknown student should be considered a privilege.

I am now praying that at least a few other responses are also positive.

Thanks again.

 

[CrysPhys]

Thanking people who have helped you is a good habit to develop. You're welcome. Hope you receive more positive responses. I wish you great success in your PhD program.

 

[advhaver]

Thanking people who have helped you is a good habit to develop. You're welcome. Hope you receive more positive responses. I wish you great success in your PhD program.

I know that the program at U Chicago is excellent, but when I told my family about the Chicago admission, a couple of them were upset that I did not apply to MIT or Princeton (but I must qualify that by clarifying that everyone was happy) because they are more "reputed" whatever that means.

To be honest, I did not apply because I assumed my resume wasn't strong enough. So, I would add a 5th takeaway to the 4 listed above.

5. Do not assume anything. Apply, apply, apply. Do not let your "profile" or "resume" limit you. If you manage your time well and start early, applying to as many as 20 universities can be done. I have three friends who applied to 15, 17, and 20 universities (all in physics).

I hope this helps others.

P.S. Can an admin or moderator change the title from "Mathematical Physics" to "Experimental Condensed Matter Physics"?

Thanks.

 

[berkeman]

P.S. Can an admin or moderator change the title from "Mathematical Physics" to "Experimental Condensed Matter Physics"?

I've appended that information to the title, so that comments about Mathematical Physics by responders are still valid.

 

[gwnorth]

Congrats on your first admit OP! U Chicago is a fantastic option. Best of luck on hearing back on the rest of your apps!

I'm still anxiously awaiting to hear if my son will get into the programs he's applied to.

 

[advhaver]

I've appended that information to the title, so that comments about Mathematical Physics by responders are still valid.

Thanks!

Congrats on your first admit OP! U Chicago is a fantastic option. Best of luck on hearing back on the rest of your apps!

I'm still anxiously awaiting to hear if my son will get into the programs he's applied to.

Thanks.

Which programs did he apply to?

 

[StatGuy2000]

Sorry for disappearing for several months. I was busy.

To end this thread, I finished my applications by the 15th of December. I got my first admit (U Chicago) yesterday. I await responses from the other universities before making up my mind. Thanks for all your help.

My takeaways:
1. Manage your time. I did not do a perfect job. I need a lot of improvement. I missed out on a few applications due to poor time management.
2. Talk to every professor you know. Don't be afraid to "cold call." I emailed several and was surprised that so many responded. Many of them asked me to read up on a topic and set up a second remote meeting to question me on the matter they asked me to read. This was a very pleasant exercise.
3. Keep your head down and work. Even after my applications were all out (December 15th), I continued to work on my research through Christmas. I suspect that professors get an intuition about the depth of your interest when they talk to you.
4. Do not forget to thank every professor you talk to sincerely. Many have very busy lives, and taking 20-30 minutes to help an unknown student should be considered a privilege.

I am now praying that at least a few other responses are also positive.

Thanks again.

To the OP:

Congratulations on your admittance to the University of Chicago! It is an excellent school with outstanding research in various areas of physics.

I wanted to wish you much success in your PhD studies and research!

 

[advhaver]

Congratulations ....I wanted to wish you much success in your PhD studies and research!

Thanks.

I am getting bombarded by relatives who are "demanding" to know why I did not fancy my chances at MIT or Princeton. I should have managed my time better and sought out professors at MIT and Princeton. MIT, especially, was on my radar. One of my advisors told me that the environment at Princeton is toxic (his daughter is doing her Ph.D. in Physics there), so I do not regret that so much.

I did approach professors at UChicago, Cornell, UPenn, Northwestern, Yale, Rice, WUSTL, Georgia Tech, U. Michigan (Ann Arbor), U.Maryland, Georgetown, Penn State, Rutgers, and U.T. Austin and interviewed with the ones in bold. In some cases, I had multiple interviews. I could have started earlier (I started chasing professors only in November). I just ran out of time.

Best of luck on hearing back on the rest of your apps!

I got WUSTL and Georgia Tech but was rejected by Univ. of Minnesota (Twin Cities). I don't want to act like a "dog in the manger," so I will write to WUSTL and GT and ask them to take my name off their list so that other students can be offered a position.

Did your son get any responses yet? I have put up my list above. I am happy to help.

P.S
I talked to U. Chicago, and they told me that they would be happy to let me work on developing my Mathematics skills while doing my Ph.D. in Physics. Over Christmas, I developed an interest in Mathematics, specifically "Mathematical Finance" (universities also call it Quantitative Finance, Financial Mathematics, etc.; see links below). It involves knowing multivariable calculus, linear algebra, probability, topology, etc.

U. Chicago: https://finmath.uchicago.edu/admissions/admission-requirements/
Stanford: https://bulletin.stanford.edu/programs/CME-MS
Carnegie: https://www.cmu.edu/mscf/academics/index.html
NYU: https://math-finance.cims.nyu.edu/academics/
Oxford: https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-mathematical-and-computational-finance
LSE: https://www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/Graduate/degree-programmes-2024/MSc-Financial-Mathematics
Imperial: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/courses/postgraduate-taught/mathematics-finance/

Oh well. There is so much to learn and only one life to do it in.

 

[DeBangis21]

Congratulations, @advhaver . Best wishes.

 

[advhaver]

Sure, it was a recommendation for a book that outlines the process of getting a Masters or PhD, for the OP.

View attachment 330471

Now that I got an admit, I ordered this book. It would have been a bit presumptuous of me to order it without an admit.

Thanks.

 

[advhaver]

Congratulations, @advhaver . Best wishes.

Thanks.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Congratulations.

Tell your relatives they should be happy for you, and not moan that you should have gone somewhere else.

1. If you get a PhD from Chicago and don't reach your goals, its not Chicago's fault and things are unlikely to have been different had you gone to Princeton.
2. Rankings are a blunt instrument even at the undergraduate level. And admissions is not a monotonic function of "potential physics greatness". Your relatives would probably pooh pooh Minnesota, bur they have a very strong program, even though they don't have the prestige amongh the uninformed than Chicago does.
3. The "big names" may not be the best overall. I can think of one area where the best in the world is Washington (Seattle). Stanford is a distant second. Another, Michigan State is tops. In another, Utah. In another, Rochester.
4. Programs improve and fall behind all the time. You can't predict where a given school will be 7 years now when you graduate, and it is foolish to try. Recently, Santa Barbara has moved up, and Wisconsin has moved down. Maybe in a few years it will be the other way around, New hires, retirements, projects starting, projects finishing, and such happen all the time. You can drive yourself crazy trying to prediect where a school will end up.

 

[CrysPhys]

I got WUSTL and Georgia Tech but was rejected by Univ. of Minnesota (Twin Cities). I don't want to act like a "dog in the manger," so I will write to WUSTL and GT and ask them to take my name off their list so that other students can be offered a position.

You might not want to withdraw your applications right away, unless you're absolutely certain that Chicago supersedes them. You also want to consider financial support packages. The most common is a teaching assistantship. Some do offer research assistantships to incoming newbies (at many universities, you need to pass the quals first, so they are not available to incoming newbies). But if a university really wants you, they will offer you a fellowship (no teaching or research responsibilities). Just something to consider, ceteris paribus.

You also want to consider locale,. At some point, there will be life outside the classroom and lab.