Photon & Electron: Photoelectric & Compton Effects

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms of energy transfer from photons to electrons in the context of the photoelectric and Compton effects. Participants explore theoretical frameworks, the role of quantum mechanics, and the adequacy of existing explanations for these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about high-level theories that explain the energy transfer in the photoelectric and Compton effects.
  • One participant describes the Compton effect as involving conservation of energy and momentum, likening it to basic kinematics.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of understanding energy bands in solids for the photoelectric effect, noting that photons with sufficient energy can excite electrons to escape the solid.
  • Concerns are raised about the adequacy of current explanations, particularly regarding the Wikipedia entry on the photoelectric effect, which some participants find misleading or incomplete.
  • A participant mentions that both the Compton and photoelectric effects can be described without the full quantization of the electromagnetic field, suggesting that a quantum mechanical description of electrons suffices.
  • There is a discussion about the challenges of contributing to Wikipedia, with participants sharing their frustrations and experiences related to editing scientific content.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the sufficiency of current explanations for the photoelectric and Compton effects. Some find the existing quantum mechanical descriptions adequate, while others question their completeness and express a desire for new theories. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the adequacy of these explanations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the current understanding of the photoelectric effect, particularly regarding the influence of crystal structure and polarization on electron emission. There are also references to potential inaccuracies in popular sources like Wikipedia, which may affect the understanding of these phenomena.

  • #31
PeterDonis said:
But that's the problem: this "rough" description is too rough, because it leaves out all the quantum mechanics. Even at a heuristic level, the interaction is not properly described as one photon and one electron "colliding", because, in perturbative QFT terms:

(a) The lowest level Feynman diagram for this process has two vertexes, not one (since each vertex connects only three lines, the incoming/outgoing electron lines and the photon line, so to get a full diagram with a photon line coming in and a photon line going out, you need two vertexes);

(b) Making correct predictions about the actual experimental data requires more than just the lowest level Feynman diagram.

And, of course, Feynman diagrams are not really direct descriptions of processes happening in spacetime anyway. (For one thing, they're usually analyzed in momentum space.)
No doubt about it. Not that I know QFT like physicists, but there is no good classical analog to this interaction.

However, I believe that jeremyfiennes thinks there is only one type of fundamental interaction, which we need to clarify that it's not.
 
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