Physical interpretation of Mandelstam variables

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the physical interpretation of Mandelstam variables in the context of ##2-2## scattering processes. Participants explore the definitions and implications of the variables ##s##, ##t##, and ##u##, their relationships to different scattering channels, and their applicability in various theoretical frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the Mandelstam variables ##s##, ##t##, and ##u## as encoding energy and momentum in a Lorentz-invariant manner.
  • Questions are raised about the physical interpretation of ##s## as the square of the center-of-mass energy, ##t## as the square of the four-momentum transfer, and the meaning of ##u##.
  • Some participants suggest that the terminology "four-momentum transfer" may not precisely capture the essence of ##t## and question the arbitrariness in choosing initial and final momenta.
  • There is a discussion about the "natural" choice of assigning particles to the variables ##t## and ##u##, with examples provided from elastic scattering processes.
  • Participants inquire whether the s-channel, t-channel, and u-channel are the only possible Feynman diagrams for ##2-2## scattering, noting that this may depend on the theory being considered.
  • Some participants assert that the Mandelstam variables are not limited to scalar theories and can apply to fermions and gauge bosons, while others clarify that they are a convenient way to parametrize the kinematic setup.
  • There is a mention of the possibility of loop diagrams and the existence of more complex Feynman diagrams beyond the basic channels.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation and application of the Mandelstam variables, with no consensus reached on several points, including the appropriateness of terminology and the nature of the diagrams involved.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions highlight the dependence on conventions and the theoretical framework being used, as well as the potential for ambiguity in the definitions of the variables.

spaghetti3451
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In ##2-2## scattering, the Mandelstam variables ##s##, ##t## and ##u## encode the energy, momentum, and angles of particles in a scattering process in a Lorentz-invariant fashion.

##s=(p_{1}+p_{2})^{2}=(p_{3}+p_{4})^{2}##
##t=(p_{1}-p_{3})^{2}=(p_{2}-p_{4})^{2}##
##u=(p_{1}-p_{4})^{2}=(p_{2}-p_{3})^{2}##

where ##p_1## and ##p_2## are the four-momenta of the incoming particles and ##p_3## and ##p_4## are the four-momenta of the outgoing particles.
How is ##s## is the square of the center-of-mass energy?

How is ##t## the square of the four-momentum transfer?

What is the physical interpretation of ##u##?

Are ##s##, ##t## and ##u## related to the ##s##-channel, ##t##-channel and ##u##-channel respectively?
 
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Did you try answering these questions yourself based on how the variables are defined?
 
I can see why ##t## is called the four-momentum transfer since it is the square of the difference between one of the initial momenta and one of the final momenta.

Still, the terminology four-momentum transfer does not seem to precisely interpret the variable ##t## since the initial momentum and the final momentum appear to chosen arbitrarily.

To illustrate, why not define ##t## as ##t=(p_{1}-p_{4})^{2}=(p_{2}-p_{3})^{2}##?

But then ##u## is defined using ##u=(p_{1}-p_{4})^{2}=(p_{2}-p_{3})^{2}##, so both ##t## and ##u## together appear to describe the different possibilities of what can be meant by four-momentum transfer.

Is the use of the terminology four-momentum transfer a bit of a hand-waving?
 
Yes, both ##t## and ##u## are 4-momentum transfers squared. They depend on which particle you assign as 3 and 4, although many times there are "natural" choices.

The entire point is that ##s## is the square of the 4-momentum of the propagator in an ##s##-channel diagram whereas ##t## and ##u## are the squares of the 4-momenta of the propagators in ##t## and ##u## channel diagrams, respectively.
 
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Orodruin said:
Yes, both ##t## and ##u## are 4-momentum transfers squared. They depend on which particle you assign as 3 and 4, although many times there are "natural" choices.

How do you decide on a natural choice?

Also, I was wondering if the s-channel, t-channel and u-channel the only possible Feynman diagrams for ##2-2## scattering?
 
failexam said:
How do you decide on a natural choice?

If you have an elastic scattering, for example ##e^+ \mu^+ \to e^+ \mu^+##, the "natural" choice would be to assign the ##t## variable to the difference squared of the positron 4-momenta (or equivalently, muon 4-momenta). What is referred to as ##t## is usually taken where the particles considered in the in and out states are the most alike.

failexam said:
Also, I was wondering if the s-channel, t-channel and u-channel the only possible Feynman diagrams for 2−22−22-2 scattering?
This depends on the theory. In QED, they are the only possibilities at tree level. Of course, there are many more options at loop level.
 
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Orodruin said:
If you have an elastic scattering, for example ##e^+ \mu^+ \to e^+ \mu^+##, the "natural" choice would be to assign the ##t## variable to the difference squared of the positron 4-momenta (or equivalently, muon 4-momenta). What is referred to as ##t## is usually taken where the particles considered in the in and out states are the most alike.

Is there a reason for why this is so?

Orodruin said:
This depends on the theory. In QED, they are the only possibilities at tree level. Of course, there are many more options at loop level.

Ok, so I presume that the Mandelstam variables are defined not only for scalar theories, but also for fermions and gauge bosons.

The diagrams for Mandelstam variables seem to give the impression that the Mandelstam variables are valid only for Feynman diagrams of ##\phi^{3}## theory with two vertices (with the exchange of one intermediate particle), or can the dotted lines have an arbitrary number of vertices for an arbitrary ##\phi^{n}## theory?
 
failexam said:
Is there a reason for why this is so?
Convention.

The Mandelstam variables a priori have nothing to do with what diagrams you are using. They appear in the propagator if you have an s-, t-, or u-channel diagram, but that is another matter. It is just a convenient way of parametrising the kinematic setup you are considering.
 
Orodruin said:
Convention.

The Mandelstam variables a priori have nothing to do with what diagrams you are using. They appear in the propagator if you have an s-, t-, or u-channel diagram, but that is another matter. It is just a convenient way of parametrising the kinematic setup you are considering.

So you mean that the s-channel, for example, could be part of a larger. more complicated Feynman diagram?
 
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No, I mean that there are usually loop diagrams and some times the s-channel diagram does not exist.
 

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