Planck Length: Upper Limit on Photon Frequency & Momentum

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SUMMARY

The momentum of a photon with a wavelength at the Planck length can be calculated using the formula p = h/λ, where λ is the Planck length. The discussion clarifies that the Planck length does not represent a hard limit on photon properties; rather, it is a scale where quantum gravity effects may become significant. It is established that photons can possess momentum exceeding the Planck mass without collapsing into a black hole, although extreme energy levels could lead to such phenomena under specific conditions. The conversation emphasizes the need for a deeper understanding of physics at high energy scales rather than adhering to rigid assumptions about the Planck units.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Planck units and their significance in physics
  • Familiarity with the concepts of photon momentum and energy
  • Knowledge of Special Relativity and the Doppler effect
  • Basic grasp of quantum gravity theories
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of Planck length in quantum gravity theories
  • Study the relationship between photon momentum and energy using p = h/λ
  • Explore the effects of relativistic speeds on photon frequency and energy
  • Investigate the conditions under which photons could theoretically collapse into black holes
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, students of theoretical physics, and anyone interested in the intersection of quantum mechanics and general relativity will benefit from this discussion.

negativzero
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TL;DR
Assuming that a wavelength shorter than the Planck length is not allowed, does that mean that photons can only carry so much momentum and no more?
Is it known how much momentum a photon possesses if it's wavelength is at the Planck length, and what happens if it's momentum is somehow increased from that?
 
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negativzero said:
Summary: Assuming that a wavelength shorter than the Planck length is not allowed...
Very bad assumption. Nature doesn't care about the Plank length any more than it cares about the foot or the meter.
 
negativzero said:
Is it known how much momentum a photon possesses if it's wavelength is at the Planck length
Yes. The momentum is ##h/\lambda##, where ##\lambda## is the Plank length.
negativzero said:
what happens if it's momentum is somehow increased from that?
Nothing special, as far as we know. The Planck units are expected to be the scale on which quantum gravity effects become apparent. As far as I'm aware this is simply because there's no other natural scale for such effects to start kicking in. We don't know what quantum gravity will look like yet, but we have no reason to expect the Planck units to be some kind of hard cutoff on the notion of length or momentum or whatever.
 
negativzero said:
Summary: Assuming that a wavelength shorter than the Planck length is not allowed, does that mean that photons can only carry so much momentum and no more?

Is it known how much momentum a photon possesses if it's wavelength is at the Planck length, and what happens if it's momentum is somehow increased from that?

It'd be better to assume that physics at the energy scale involved are not well understood, than to assume that photons with that energy are "not allowed".

Certainly we can assign a number to the energy and momentum of a photon whose wavelength is the Planck length.
 
Thank you. I hope I'm not transgressing to ask if this means the constant is a mensuration issue not a physical constant or limit of any kind?
 
negativzero said:
Thank you. I hope I'm not transgressing to ask if this means the constant is a mensuration issue not a physical constant or limit of any kind?
Yes. (That's "yes that's what it means" not "yes you're transgressing" - you aren't).
This question comes so often that we have an Insights article about it: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/hand-wavy-discussion-planck-length/
 
Let us assume that Special Relativity is a correct theory of nature. Suppose that a static observer points a red laser beam at you. You start moving to the direction of the laser.

The Doppler effect makes you to measure the frequency of the light higher than the static observer. Furthermore, if you move at a relativistic speed, the static observer sees your clock run slower than his clock. That makes the frequency you measure even higher.

You may measure the frequency of normal visible light as so high that in your frame, the wavelength is less than the Planck length.

A photon of light always in some frame looks like having more than the Planck mass worth of energy. That does not mean that it collapses into a black hole. However, if an observer who is static in the fast frame collides with the photon, suddenly 1.2 * 10^28 eV of energy is freed, and a collapse into a black hole might happen.
 
"You may measure the frequency of normal visible light as so high that in your frame, the wavelength is less than the Planck length. "
Thank you for that. Hypothetical frames of reference. I can't think of any hypothetical frames of reference that would apply, rushing in toward the point-like observer. But I'm not good at interpreting what the math means to physical reality. For instance, the mere fact that someone can imagine a different set of rules that create a different universe doesn't mean to me that such a universe would necessarily exist. Yet some math is famously accurate at describing reality. However, taking what you suggest to heart, I'm trying to imagine a universe where every photon has the momentum of a super black hole relative to infinite frames of reference. I infer that you somehow dismiss your picture of a cosmology wherein every photon measured from infinite onrushing frames is black hole. Is it too speculative to ask why not? I look forward to any reply.
 

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