Please no Bush-bashing, America bashing

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around perceptions of American democracy, anti-American sentiment, and the implications of labeling individuals as "anti-American." Participants explore the nuances of these terms and the validity of claims made in a Forbes article, examining the relationship between democracy and public opinion in the U.S. and Europe. The scope includes conceptual clarifications, critiques of media narratives, and the role of intellectual discourse in political contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of labeling critics of U.S. actions as "anti-American," suggesting it undermines democratic discourse.
  • Others argue that the association of anti-Americanism with anti-democratic views is unfounded, citing examples of democratic countries with critical views of the U.S.
  • A participant critiques the portrayal of the U.S. as the world's most successful democracy, arguing that this is a propagandistic claim that overlooks complexities in the electoral process.
  • Concerns are raised about the quality of public opinion being shaped by media, with some suggesting that intellectual opinions are often more informed than populist views.
  • There is a discussion on the differences in views on capital punishment between the U.S. and Europe, with some asserting that the issue is misrepresented in the article.
  • Participants challenge the notion that European countries lack experience with democracy, arguing that this perspective is historically inaccurate.
  • Critiques are made regarding the portrayal of French political systems and the influence of intellectuals, with some labeling it as biased or unfounded.
  • Some express skepticism about the claim that European elites are ignorant of U.S. history, arguing that American culture is widely taught and acknowledged in Europe.
  • There are assertions that the framing of the U.S. Constitution's creation process is mischaracterized, with participants suggesting that European approaches to governance are informed by American experiences.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with significant disagreement on the implications of anti-American sentiment, the characterization of democracy in the U.S. and Europe, and the validity of claims made in the referenced article. No consensus is reached on these issues.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include differing interpretations of democracy, the influence of media on public opinion, and the historical context of U.S.-European relations. The discussion reflects a variety of assumptions and perspectives that remain unresolved.

  • #211
Classic Insults
USA
Of course, America had often been discovered before Columbus, but it had always been hushed up
Oscar Wilde

America is the only nation in history which has miraculously gone directly from barbarism to degeneration without the usual interval of civilisation
Georges Clemenceau

Canada
It makes little difference, Canada is useful only to provide me with furs
Madame de Pompadour

I don't even know what street Canada is on
Al Capone

Wales
There are still parts of Wales where the only concession to gaiety is a striped shroud
Gwyn Thomas

A Welshman prays on his knees on a Sunday and on his friends the rest of the week
English saying

Ireland
An Irish homosexual is one who prefers women to drink
Sean O'Faolain

Put an Irishman on a spit and you can always find another one to turn him
Bernard Shaw

France
France is a country where the money falls apart in your hands and you can't tear the toilet paper
Billy Wilder

The Italians are wise before the act, the Germans in the act, the French after the act.
Saying

England
I know why the sun never sets on the British Empire, God would never trust an Englishman in the dark
Duncan Spaeth

Paralytic sycophants, effete betrayers of humanity, carrion-eating servile imitators, arch-cowards and collaborators, gang of women-murderers, degenerate rabble, parasitic traditionalists, playboy soldiers, conceited dandies.
East German Communist Party's approved terms of abuse in 1953 for East German speakers when describing Britain
 
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  • #212
By ART
England
I know why the sun never sets on the British Empire, God would never trust an Englishman in the dark
Duncan Spaeth

Paralytic sycophants, effete betrayers of humanity, carrion-eating servile imitators, arch-cowards and collaborators, gang of women-murderers, degenerate rabble, parasitic traditionalists, playboy soldiers, conceited dandies.
East German Communist Party's approved terms of abuse in 1953 for East German speakers when describing Britain

That is just SO not nice, how can someone with a name like Spaeth, or the
EGCP, bad mouth anything?
 

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