Poisson Bracket - Constrained system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of Poisson Brackets in the context of constrained systems using the Dirac Hamiltonian method. Participants are exploring the implications of part-by-part integration in this framework, particularly regarding the relationship between fields and their conjugate momenta.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Vahid, is attempting to derive constraints from a Lagrangian density and questions the calculation of the Poisson Bracket \{\varphi,\partial_x\pi\}.
  • Another participant asserts that \{\varphi(x),\pi(y)\} = \delta(x-y) and provides a calculation for \{\varphi(x),\partial_y\pi(y)\} = \partial_y\{\varphi(x),\pi(y)\} = \partial_y \delta(x-y>.
  • Vahid expresses uncertainty about the presence of a minus sign in the second line of the previous response, suggesting potential confusion with part-by-part integration.
  • A later reply clarifies that the minus sign appears in partial integration when the derivative acts on x instead of y, providing further details on the behavior of the delta function under differentiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the presence of the minus sign in the Poisson Bracket calculations, indicating a disagreement or uncertainty regarding the application of part-by-part integration in this context.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential confusion regarding the application of part-by-part integration and the specific conditions under which the minus sign appears in the differentiation of the delta function.

vnikoofard
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Hi friends

I am trying to drive constraints of a Lagrangian density by Dirac Hamiltonian method. But I encountered a problem with calculating one type of Poisson Bracket:
{[itex]\varphi,\partial_x\pi[/itex]}=?
where [itex]\pi[/itex] is conjugate momentum of [itex]\varphi[/itex]. I do not know for this type Poisson Bracket I can use part-by-part integration or not. I mean
{[itex]\varphi,\varphi\partial_x\pi[/itex]}= -[itex]\varphi[/itex]

Cheeeers!
Vahid
 
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[tex]\{\varphi(x),\pi(y)\} = \delta(x-y)[/tex]
[tex]\{\varphi(x),\partial_y\pi(y)\} = \partial_y\{\varphi(x),\pi(y)\} = \partial_y \delta(x-y)[/tex]
 
Thanks very much for response.
I wonder myself maybe appear a minus sign in the second line. Are you sure? Maybe I am confusing this situation with part by part integration!
 
Last edited:
The minus sign appears in partial integration or when the derivative is acting on x instead of y:

[tex]\partial_y \delta(x-y) = \delta(x-y)\partial_y[/tex]
[tex]\partial_y \delta(x-y) = -\partial_x \delta(x-y) = -\delta^\prime(x-y)[/tex]
 

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