Polarisation of dielectric materials

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the polarization of dielectric materials, specifically addressing the implications of non-uniform polarization and the relationship between divergence, bound charge densities, and dipole moments.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the conditions under which non-uniform polarization can result in zero divergence, questioning the implications for bound charge densities. They also discuss the dependence of dipole moments on the choice of origin and the effect of net charge on this relationship.

Discussion Status

The conversation is active, with participants clarifying concepts and questioning assumptions. Some guidance has been offered regarding the relationship between charge distribution and dipole moment, but no consensus has been reached on the implications of the divergence of polarization.

Contextual Notes

There is some ambiguity regarding the homework assignment, with participants questioning whether it involves verifying the correctness of given statements. Additionally, the nature of the problem is clarified as not being a traditional homework problem.

lys04
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Homework Statement
Is this correct?
For a uniformly polarised material i,e divergence of polarisation is 0, there will only be bound surface charges and so the dipole moment only comes from these bound surface charges.

However, for a non uniformly polarised material, the divergence is non 0 so the material will have both bound volume charge density and bound surface charge density. And thus both of these contribute to the dipole moment.
Relevant Equations
Uniformly polarised material:
##\vec{p}(\vec{x_0}) =\int_{surface} (\vec{x’}-\vec{x_0}) \sigma (\vec{x’}) dA’##

##=\vec{p}(\vec{x_0}) =\int_{surface} (\vec{x’}-\vec{x_0}) \vec{P} \cdot \hat{n} dA’##

Non uniformly polarised material:
##\vec{p}(\vec{x_0}) =\int_{surface} (\vec{x’}-\vec{x_0}) \sigma (\vec{x’}) dA’ + \int_{volume} (\vec{x’}-\vec{x_0}) \rho (\vec{x’}) dV’ ##

##=\vec{p}(\vec{x_0}) =\int_{surface} (\vec{x’}-\vec{x_0}) \vec{P} \cdot \hat{n} dA’ - \int_{volume} (\vec{x’}-\vec{x_0}) \nabla \cdot \vec{P} dV’##
^^
 
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lys04 said:
However, for a non uniformly polarised material, the divergence is non 0 so the material will have both bound volume charge density and bound surface charge density.
This statement is not necessarily true. It's possible for the polarization ##\vec P## within a dielectric material to be nonuniform and yet have ##\vec \nabla \cdot \vec P = 0## at every point inside the dielectric material. [Edited to remove additional comments that probably gives away too much information for a homework question.]

I'm not clear on the homework assignment. Are you given the statements listed in the "Homework Statement" and your assignment is to decide if the statements are correct?
 
Last edited:
TSny said:
This statement is not necessarily true. It's possible for the polarization P→ within a dielectric material to be nonuniform and yet have ∇→⋅P→=0 at every point inside the dielectric material.
Ah yeah I can see how that's possible.
But given a non-zero divergence, would the dipole moment be given by
##\vec{p}(\vec{x_0}) =\int_{surface} (\vec{x’}-\vec{x_0}) \sigma (\vec{x’}) dA’ + \int_{volume} (\vec{x’}-\vec{x_0}) \rho (\vec{x’}) dV’ ##?
TSny said:
I'm not clear on the homework assignment. Are you given the statements listed in the "Homework Statement" and your assignment is to decide if the statements are correct?
No, this is not a homework problem.
 
lys04 said:
Ah yeah I can see how that's possible.
But given a non-zero divergence, would the dipole moment be given by
##\vec{p}(\vec{x_0}) =\int_{surface} (\vec{x’}-\vec{x_0}) \sigma (\vec{x’}) dA’ + \int_{volume} (\vec{x’}-\vec{x_0}) \rho (\vec{x’}) dV’ ##?
That looks right. Just to be clear, what is the meaning of ##\vec x_0##? If the net charge of the dielectric is zero, does the dipole moment ##\vec p## depend on ##\vec x_0##?
 
TSny said:
That looks right. Just to be clear, what is the meaning of ##\vec x_0##? If the net charge of the dielectric is zero, does the dipole moment ##\vec p## depend on ##\vec x_0##?
If the charge distribution has non zero total charge then the dipole moment depends on where you measure it. But it doesn’t matter if the charge distribution has 0 net charge
 
lys04 said:
If the charge distribution has non zero total charge then the dipole moment depends on where you measure it.
But it doesn’t matter if the charge distribution has 0 net charge
Ok.
##\vec x_0## in the integrals represents the choice of origin for calculating the dipole moment. If the net charge of the system is zero, then the dipole moment will not depend on ##\vec x_0##..
 

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