Polarization vectors for spin-2 particles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formula for polarization vectors of spin-2 particles and the mathematical structures related to tensor products of spin states. Participants explore the origins and implications of the formula, its relation to group theory, and the decomposition of tensors into irreducible representations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the origins of the formula involving tensor products and its connection to spin-2 particles.
  • Others suggest that the structure of the formula resembles elements of a quadrupole tensor and relates to group theory.
  • A participant explains the decomposition of tensor products into irreducible tensors, detailing the symmetric and antisymmetric components.
  • There is a discussion on the significance of symmetry and antisymmetry in relation to irreducible representations, with some suggesting they belong to different multiplets.
  • Some participants propose that the invariant tensor can relate different representations, while others clarify that the construction does not involve spin-1/2 objects.
  • Participants share recommendations for textbooks that cover group theory and particle physics relevant to the discussion.
  • There are technical discussions about angular momentum operators and their relation to symmetric traceless tensors, with some questioning the clarity of the presented mathematical expressions.
  • A participant mentions that the square of the angular momentum operator relates to the total spin and highlights the reducibility of the n-tensor representation of the SO(d) algebra.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the significance of the formula and its implications, with no consensus reached on the deeper meanings or interpretations of symmetry and antisymmetry in this context.

Contextual Notes

Some mathematical steps and assumptions remain unresolved, particularly regarding the implications of the tensor decomposition and the relationship between different representations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying theoretical physics, particularly in the areas of particle physics, group theory, and the mathematical foundations of quantum mechanics.

Breo
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Who knows where this formula comes?

$$ e_i \otimes e_j + e_j \otimes e_i - \frac{2}{3}( \sum_{\substack{k}} e_k \otimes e_k
)\delta_{ij} $$
 
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Where does it appear?
The structure reminds me of the off-diagonal elements of a quadrupol tensor.
 
this equation reminds to to group rotations or symmetries. Something of group theory.
 
Breo said:
Who knows where this formula comes?

$$ e_i \otimes e_j + e_j \otimes e_i - \frac{2}{3}( \sum_{\substack{k}} e_k \otimes e_k
)\delta_{ij} $$
Ok, If you couple two spin 1 vectors, you get the following spins
[tex]\vec{ 1 } + \vec{ 1 } = ( \vec{ 2 } , \vec{ 1 } , \vec{ 0 } ) . \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ (1)[/tex]
In components, this means
[tex][ 3 ] \otimes [ 3 ] = [ 5 ] \oplus [ 3 ] \oplus [ 1 ]. \ \ \ \ (1a)[/tex]
What does this equation means? Well, the LHS is the (reducible) tensor product of two 3-vectors, [itex]e_{ i } \otimes e_{ j }[/itex]. The RHS, which consists of irreducible tensors, is obtained by the decomposing the tensor product into (direct)sum of independent tensors. In general, you decompose a tensor into irreducible tensors by forming symmetric and antisymmetric combinations and subtracting all possible traces. So, your example is the simplest one:
[tex] e_{ i } \otimes e_{ j } = \frac{ 1 }{ 2 } G_{ i j } + \frac{ 1 }{ 2 } A_{ i j } + \frac{ 1 }{ 3 } \delta_{ i j } e_{ k } \otimes e_{ k } ,<br /> \ \ \ (1b)[/tex]
where the tensor
[tex]G_{ i j } = e_{ i } \otimes e_{ j } + e_{ j } \otimes e_{ i } - \frac{ 2 }{ 3 } \delta_{ i j } e_{ k } \otimes e_{ k } ,[/tex]
is symmetric, [itex]G_{ i j } = G_{ j i }[/itex] and traceless [itex]\delta_{ i j } G_{ i j } = 0[/itex]. Therefore, it has [itex](3/2)(3 + 1) - 1= [5][/itex] components and can represent a massive spin [itex]\vec{ 2 }[/itex] particle,
[tex]A_{ i j } = e_{ i } \otimes e_{ j } - e_{ j } \otimes e_{ i } ,[/tex]
is anti-symmetric tensor. In 3-dimension, it has [itex](3/2)(3 - 1 ) = [3][/itex] components. Therefore, it is equivalent to spin [itex]\vec{1}[/itex] represented by the 3-vector [itex]v_{ i } \equiv \epsilon_{ i j k} A_{ j k }[/itex], and finally
[tex]e_{ k } \otimes e_{ k } = \mbox{ Tr } ( e_{ i } \otimes e_{ j } ) = \delta_{ m n} e_{ m } \otimes e_{ n } ,[/tex]
is the invariant trace, i.e., [itex][ 1 ][/itex] component scalar representing spin [itex]\vec{ 0 }[/itex].
So, equations eq(1), eq(1a) and eq(1b) all have the same meaning.
 
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samalkhaiat said:
subtracting all possible traces

Guys, you are being very helpful this week :) great!

Has symmetry or antisymmetry some deeper significance, beyond building the irreps? From the notation in the irrep sum it seems that this [itex]A_{ij}[/itex] with two indexes is still the same thing, [3], that the initial vector [itex]e_i[/itex]... is it? And we could also get a spin 1 vector from a product 1/2 x 1/2, and then it would be in the symmetric representation, but still be just a spin 1 vector as the others.
 
Infinite thanks! Do you know a good textbook which talks more about this?
 
arivero said:
Guys, you are being very helpful this week :) great!

Has symmetry or antisymmetry some deeper significance, beyond building the irreps?
No, that is deep enough. The point is this, symmetric and anti-symmetric tensors do not mix under the transformations in the question, i.e., they belong to different multiplets (invariant subspaces).
From the notation in the irrep sum it seems that this [itex]A_{ij}[/itex] with two indexes is still the same thing, [3], that the initial vector [itex]e_i[/itex]... is it?
Yes, they are (as I said) equivalent, because of the invariant tensor [itex]\epsilon_{ i j k }[/itex]
And we could also get a spin 1 vector from a product 1/2 x 1/2, and then it would be in the symmetric representation, but still be just a spin 1 vector as the others.
The above construction has no spin (1/2) object! For that, you need to consider the group [itex]SU(2)[/itex].
 
Breo said:
Infinite thanks! Do you know a good textbook which talks more about this?
Try textbooks on group theory and particle physics.
 
  • #10
Breo said:
Infinite thanks! Do you know a good textbook which talks more about this?

Try first H. Georgi's <Lie Algebras and Particle Physics>.
 
  • #11
dextercioby said:
Try first H. Georgi's <Lie Algebras and Particle Physics>.
uh? "Learn mathematics from books written by mathematicians" :-D

Well, for this topic, it is true that physicist books are usual bussiness. I'd add Slansky's Report, which is scanned in the KEK database and surely also at SLAC, and some modern ones. Ramond? Cvitanovic?
 
  • #12
For 2 and 3 dimensions, there is a connection between spin n and symmetric traceless n-tensors.

Let's consider rotation / angular momentum operators for vectors and tensors. ## (L_{ab})_{ij} = \delta_{ai} \delta_{bj} - \delta_{bi} \delta_{aj} ## with
L(total) = L(index 1) + L(index 2) + ... + L(index n)

The square ## L^2 = - \frac12 L_{ab} L_{ab} ## where the -1/2 is for identifying it with quantum-mechanical spin. Its general expression for a tensor is
$$ (L^2)_{(i)(j)} = n (d - 1) \delta_{(i)(j)} + \sum_{q != p} ( \delta_{p:i,q:j} \delta_{q:i,p:j} - \delta_{p:i,p:j} \delta_{q:i,q:j} ) \delta_{other (i)(j)} $$
for indices p and q and values i and j of them, and also d dimensions of of vector index.

It is evident that the largest L2 is for a symmetric traceless tensor, and in that case, we get L2 = n*(n+d-2). That's the right value for the square of the spin for both d = 2 and d = 3.
 
  • #13
lpetrich said:
For 2 and 3 dimensions, there is a connection between spin n and symmetric traceless n-tensors.

Let's consider rotation / angular momentum operators for vectors and tensors. ## (L_{ab})_{ij} = \delta_{ai} \delta_{bj} - \delta_{bi} \delta_{aj} ## with
L(total) = L(index 1) + L(index 2) + ... + L(index n)

The square ## L^2 = - \frac12 L_{ab} L_{ab} ## where the -1/2 is for identifying it with quantum-mechanical spin. Its general expression for a tensor is
$$ (L^2)_{(i)(j)} = n (d - 1) \delta_{(i)(j)} + \sum_{q != p} ( \delta_{p:i,q:j} \delta_{q:i,p:j} - \delta_{p:i,p:j} \delta_{q:i,q:j} ) \delta_{other (i)(j)} $$
for indices p and q and values i and j of them, and also d dimensions of of vector index.

It is evident that the largest L2 is for a symmetric traceless tensor, and in that case, we get L2 = n*(n+d-2). That's the right value for the square of the spin for both d = 2 and d = 3.
What does that garbage mean, exactly?
 
Last edited:
  • #14
The Lab's are generators of the SO(d) algebra for d dimensions, appropriately extended to n-tensors. The L2 is the square Casimir invariant of that algebra, and it gives the total spin. This n-tensor representation of SO(d) is reducible, and one of its parts is for a symmetric traceless n-tensor.
 

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