Unclear approximation in demonstration regarding neutrino oscillations

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the approximation used in the context of neutrino oscillations, specifically focusing on the energy differences between neutrino eigenstates. Participants are examining the mathematical derivation and assumptions behind the expression for the energy difference, particularly the approximation involving the masses of the neutrinos and their momenta.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the derivation of the approximation \(E_i - E_j \approx \frac{m^2_i - m^2_j}{2p}\) and seeks clarification on its origins.
  • Another participant suggests that the expression should involve both momenta \(p_i\) and \(p_j\) and proposes an alternative formulation, indicating confusion about why only one momentum is considered.
  • A third participant posits that the assumption of equal momenta \(p_i = p_j\) is based on momentum conservation, which is a point of contention.
  • Further discussion raises questions about the experimental setup and the implications of translation symmetry on mass conservation.
  • One participant argues that the momentum is associated with flavor eigenstates rather than mass eigenstates, suggesting that differences arise solely from mass differences.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the factor of 2 in the approximation and seeks clarification on the binomial expansion used in the derivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions underlying the energy difference approximation, with no consensus reached regarding the necessity of considering both momenta or the implications of symmetry in the context of neutrino oscillations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion hinges on the assumptions of momentum conservation and the treatment of mass differences in the context of neutrino oscillations, with some mathematical steps remaining unresolved.

Daaavde
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
I'm stucked in a passage of Particle Physics (Martin B., Shaw G.) in page 41 regarding neutrino oscillations.

Having defined E_i and E_j as the energies of the eigenstates \nu_i and \nu_j, we have:

E_i - E_j = \sqrt{m^2_i - p^2} - \sqrt{m^2_j - p^2} \approx \frac{m^2_i - m^2_j}{2p}

It can be useful to know that here natural units are used (c=1) and that the masses of the neutrino are considered much smaller than their momenta (m << p)
Still, I can't understand where the \frac{m^2_i - m^2_j}{2p} comes from.

Does anyone have any idea?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
E_i - E_j = \sqrt{m^2_i + p^2} - \sqrt{m^2_j + p^2} \approx \frac{m^2_i - m^2_j}{2p}

since up to the second order:

\sqrt{m^2 + p^2} \approx p + \frac{m^2}{2 p}

I just don't understand why the formula involves only one momentum.
Why is it not:

E_i - E_j = \sqrt{m^2_i + p_i^2} - \sqrt{m^2_j + p_j^2} \approx p_i - p_j + \frac{m^2_i - m^2_j}{2p}

Any idea?
 
Last edited:
because you consider that the only difference in energies comes from the mass differences - or in other words you consider p_{i}=p_{j} (momentum conservation).
 
But I don't see how that is defined by the supposed experimental setup.
Or is it simply because of the translation symmetry along the beam?

Along this line, which symmetry would imply rest mass conservation?
 
I don't think it's a symmetry...
I think it has to do with the fact that the momentum is described by the flavor and not by the mass eigenstates...
in other words, when you expand a flavor eigenstate:
v_{f} it has to have some momentum p
then the expanded ones should keep the same momentum...and all the differences are supposed to come from the masses
 
I'm sorry, but something is missing for me.

If we expand, we get: \sqrt{m^2 + p^2} + m \frac{2m}{2\sqrt{m^2 + p^2}}

and considering p>>m: p + \frac{m^2}{p}

So, I'm missing the factor 2 next to p.
 
Use the first two terms of a binomial expansion for the last line of

$$\begin{align}
\sqrt{m^2 + p^2} &= p \sqrt{1 + \frac{m^2}{p^2}} \\
&= p \left(1 + \frac{m^2}{p^2}\right)^{\frac{1}{2}}
\end{align}$$
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
29K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K