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Police arrest paramedic on an emergency run

  1. May 28, 2009 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    I don't know what to think of this one yet, but apparently the paramedic failed to yield to the police car, so he was pulled over. A woman was in the back of the ambulance.

    The paramedic claimed that he couldn't pull over safely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dUDvNfLE4E
     
  2. jcsd
  3. May 28, 2009 #2

    cristo

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    What a stupid situation! Shouldn't an ambulance have right of way over a police car if in an emergency situation, anyway?
     
  4. May 28, 2009 #3
    I also believe so which makes me wonder if this was really the cause.

    In the video all I could see were white police officers and a black man :rofl:.
     
  5. May 28, 2009 #4

    Moonbear

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    The police officer is completely in the wrong if they interfere with an ambulance that has sirens and lights flashing. There ARE laws for ambulance drivers for such things as how far over the speed limit they really are allowed to go, but since the police officer would not know what condition the patient is in and whether stopping would interfere with that patient's survival, they should just follow the ambulance to the hospital and address the issue after the patient is under the care of hospital staff.
     
  6. May 28, 2009 #5
    All that video tells is that the driver is outside the ambulance arguing with the policemen. It doesn't tell anything else.

    But I agree that from the information provided in the OP, officers are wrong.
     
  7. May 28, 2009 #6
    Uh oh, he was DWB.
     
  8. May 28, 2009 #7

    berkeman

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    There is a long discussion thread about this over at an EMS forum that I frequent:

    http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=12921

    Some of the replies are overly-strident, but this one stands out for me:

    It looks like mistakes were made on both sides in this incident. Hopefull the AARs (after action reports) will address them.
     
  9. May 28, 2009 #8

    Moonbear

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    Do the PD and EMS operate on shared radio channels? You'd think that an issue with an ambulance responding to a call could be communicated through the radio to the driver or for the driver to communicate back with the police that they acknowledged the car but couldn't stop if they couldn't. Basically, why pull each other over to sort out a problem if it can wait, and if it can't wait, why not get that through to the driver via radio so they know there's a good reason to yield?
     
  10. May 28, 2009 #9

    berkeman

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    It depends on the services. In most areas that I'm familiar with (and that we discuss in that EMS web forum), there is no direct radio contact. There would generally be dispatch-to-dispatch phone contact involved in closing the loop.
     
  11. May 28, 2009 #10

    Ivan Seeking

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    The other issue is whether excessive force was used. Was it really necessary to grab him by the throat?
     
  12. May 28, 2009 #11

    mgb_phys

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    Not a rare occurrence apparently
    http://www.kmov.com/video/topvideo-index.html?nvid=217818 [Broken]

    Although in court a fireman trumps police !
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  13. May 28, 2009 #12

    berkeman

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    It's a standard move in many PD protocols for inividuals who violently resist arrest. So the resisting part is what lead to that (unfortunately).

    Here's another good post from that EMS thread:

    So LEO can be wrong, but you really need to work within the system to get your patient (pt) to the hospital emergency department (ED) as soon as possible. In the incident in this thread, the pt apparently just had mild heat exhaustion and was treated and released. Can you imagine if you're working a code (cariac arrest) like the guys in the quoted incident above?!
     
  14. May 28, 2009 #13

    Moonbear

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    I've heard a similar story from a friend of a friend who is an EMT. He was driving with a patient that had coded and couldn't be stabilized in the field, so he was just trying to get the patient to the hospital as fast as possible...exceeding the speed limit even for running with lights and sirens. A cop tried to pull him over, and he just kept going. When they got to the hospital, similar deal, the cop wanted to arrest him for evasion...except he did make it to the hospital first. Cop didn't like getting a lecture from him about the unstable patient. He said he thinks the cop liked the lecture from the judge even less when it was thrown out of court. That was the first time I heard about any such thing, and knowing the town it had happened in, I just thought, yeah, figures, they've got some bored pr***s of cops there (I usually have great respect for police, but once in a while, there's a town where they seem to play by different rules).

    It sounds like it's more common than I imagined. I thought it was really just an isolated incident of an idiot cop who didn't know to wait to handle the problem at the hospital.

    There really ought to be a procedure for handling such things that puts the patient first. Whether it involves a shared frequency for radio communication (this seems like a general issue for emergency response not to be able to directly communicate between departments), or going through a dispatcher and involving a supervisor as part of protocol, or just always saying that traffic stops take a back burner to patient care and all incidents with ambulances should be handled at the ER, not en route, unless there is a danger to the ambulance and/or patient if the ambulance is not stopped immediately (and again, convey this through the dispatchers if necessary).
     
  15. May 28, 2009 #14
    They are probably on a trunk radio system sharing the same channels and towers but the chatter is seperated so each can only hear the transmissions meant for them. Each radio has some sort of unique identifier that makes sure it is transmitted to the proper receivers. In a smaller town they may do it differently but in any big city neither one is going to want to be getting walked on by the other while trying to transmit or receive. Going through dispatch is best.
     
  16. May 28, 2009 #15

    berkeman

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    No, not in general. PD and Fire are on trunked radio systems, but EMS/Ambulance agencies are not. EMS usually uses commercial radio frequencies that are Simplex and not trunked, although they may use repeaters sometimes. Also, the trunked PD and Fire channels are increasingly encrypted with proprietary codes (for obvious reasons), so EMS' only link is via our dispatchers, or worst case, we use our cell phones to call into the local PD/Fire dispatchers and request link-up that way.
     
  17. May 28, 2009 #16
    Very true, my father is a retired fireman now but actually got arrested while servicing a fire hydrant once upon a time because a rookie cop didn't like where he was parked! LOL

    That rookie got reamed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  18. May 28, 2009 #17

    JasonRox

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    Oh man, the police nightmares in the US.

    Power hungry people.

    Note: Sure it happens in Canada too. Sometimes. Mostly the RCMP. Not local police.
     
  19. May 28, 2009 #18

    JasonRox

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    I would make sure the rookie gets fired.

    Any signs of power trippers in the police force and they should be fired.
     
  20. May 28, 2009 #19
    That's interesting. I'd have assumed they would use the same emergency bands instead of commercial. But I guess the ambulances that are not FD are commercial aren't they.
     
  21. May 28, 2009 #20
    I'm not sure but when I used to be a Airborne Express (1998) delivery guy I would deliver to this ambulance garage a lot and it wasn't a city outfit. More like a contracted business. I would assume that they have their own radio channels to their home base that has it's coms with the local 911 office. It wouldn't make much sense for an ambulance driver to be on coms with the police department that would have a lot of traffic not associated with a paramedics job.
     
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