Police arrest paramedic on an emergency run

[berkeman]

Does it also contain sarcasm? Was the "short range line-of-sight wideband transmission that warns that a ambulance/firetruck is on an emergency call" referring to lights & siren?

I like the hat-mounted antenna part, myself. Stylish.

 

[Borg]

Years ago, I was a volunteer fireman. One of the things that we were taught is that the fire department has control of the scene and the incident commander has authority over the police at the scene. If the EMS is transporting a patient, they are in control of their incident and the police should not be interferring with their duties.

When I watched the video, the police appear to be well aware that a patient was being transported - which puts them in the wrong. However, when the police announced that the driver was under arrest, he was in the wrong for fighting back. It looks like cooler heads finally prevailed because the driver was eventually allowed to continue his run.

 

[berkeman]

Years ago, I was a volunteer fireman. One of the things that we were taught is that the fire department has control of the scene and the incident commander has authority over the police at the scene. If the EMS is transporting a patient, they are in control of their incident and the police should not be interferring with their duties.

That's not generally how incidents are run now. Under SEMS, NIMS and ICS, the Incident Commander is generally from the main agency responsible for the incident. So for a fire emergency, yes, the Fire Chief is generally the IC. But for police actions, the Police Chief or other PD officer will generally be the IC. There are sometimes "shared command" situations, but those are unusual.

There was no ICS set up for this incident that I'm aware of. It was just an incident in the field that happened real-time. If it had been part of an MCI or other incident where an ICS had been established, then the dispute would have been pushed up the chain pretty quickly, and the Operations Chief or the IC would have generally made the call. That's reflected a bit in the places where the ambulance folks have asked to speak to a PD supervisor to resolve traffic stops when they have a patient in the back.

 

[skeptic2]

The police officer was suspended for 5 days.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/oklahoma.trooper.suspended/index.html

 

[xxChrisxx]

As much as I have respect for police everywhere, as its a pretty ****** thankless job most of the time, I've been hearing of more situations like this (I know only bad ones make the news and the media will tend to run stories tha tmake people look bad).

[Controversy]

But its stories like this one that makes me glad I live in the UK, who from the limited experiece I have with the police, show them to be far more professional than their US counterparts.

[/Controversy]

Now obviously I realize that my limited experiece and only seeing cop programmes on TV (which I realize isn't truly representitive) but US police get away with things that would get a UK officer sacked instantly for misconduct.

Just operational differences I suppose.

 

[mgb_phys]

But its stories like this one that makes me glad I live in the UK, who from the limited experiece I have with the police, show them to be far more professional than their US counterparts.

Unless you are a photographer or over 5'11"

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/22/kent_police/

 

[xxChrisxx]

Like I said its just based on my own, very limited experience. My point above was that a US copper will tend to turn to a violent solution more readily than the UK officer, I only suspect that that's the case becuase over here they would be sacked.

I just find that in many situations the softer approach tends to diffuse a potentially violent confrontation before the need to grab someone by the neck.

I have heard of many many stupid things the UK police have done that just shows a lack of common sense. Armed resonse arresting a 7 year old for playing with a bb gun springs to mind.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Like I said its just based on my own, very limited experience. My point above was that a US copper will tend to turn to a violent solution more readily than the UK officer, I only suspect that that's the case becuase over here they would be sacked.

How long did you live in the US? How many interactions with the police there did you have?

 

[xxChrisxx]

Ahh seems like I've used a poor choice of words and made it look like I've got first hand experience of both sides. Which I should clear up.

I've had first hand experience with dealing with the UK police, was on a night out with a few Uni friends that came from the US, and that got us talking about the situation afterwards. So all I've got regarding the US policing is their stories and views (I don't think they would have lied or embellished but I guess they could have). So i'll freely admit it's just my horribly biased opinion based on secondary evidence.

I also don't want to give the image that I was ******** on the US police, as anyone tat puts their lives on the line for the sake ofthe community deserves a lot of respect, merely mentioning that they apppear to have a slightly more cavalier with their attitude to policing.

EDIT: Oops, first time I've been done on profinity filter

 

[cronxeh]

Well as a Paramedic I thought I'd comment. The medic should not have jumped out from the back of the ambulance. If the officer approached the EMT (driver in the front of the ambulance) just to reproach him and tell him that he should've yielded - both EMT and medic could have had a little laugh over it later. If the cop wrote a summons or a ticket the case would've been dismissed later anyway. Then again, stopping an ambulance (if it was going lights n sirens) is technically "obstructing EMS operations", depending on local laws it could be a misdemeanor. So again, the medic should not have jumped out. Another thing is.. he is black. Yes. That opens a whole new can of worms but we will ignore that.

Did you know that the state trooper that choked the medic had his wife in his patrol car while responding to a call? That is against regulations. Also, in general state troopers are a special kind of cop. By special I actually mean "special", except their cruisers are not short. In any event if the cop claims the ambulance did not yield right of way while he was responding to a call, then why did he spend total of 8 seconds on that call? He was not the first unit on the scene to take the report of a stolen vehicle, and he certainly wasn't going the speed limit. He flew up on the ambulance and they had very little time to slow down when that car in front of the ambulance just yielded to the right.

In summary: cop has anger issues, a little racist, and certainly did not extend any professional courtesy. The medic is a loud mouth, should not have left the patient compartment and should not have told the cop that he is in charge. He is in the charge of the unit, not the cop. If the cop has an issue with the EMT the cop can address the EMT. If the cop wants to arrest the patient, THEN it's medic's business to get in the cop's face if it is a true emergency.

 

[edward]

The dash cam video of the police camera adds to the story.



Watch it closely. The police car was coming up fast (the ambulance driver did claim that he did not have time to pull over) that appears to be the situation.

There was a car already pulled over that the ambulance had to pass. This is only an assumption, but the sight of an ambulance along with the sound of the siren was probably the reason why the car had pulled over.

Upon arriving at the scene of the police call the situation was already resolved. The officer then took off after the ambulance.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

That cop ought to be fired. He provoked the situation and then fed the flames. He created conflict when there didn't need to be any. And the paramedic was right! The cops did come up fast and the ambulance did start to pull over after they passed the other stopped car.

If anyone claims that the cop acted within his authority, then I say he has too much authority! Watching something like that makes my blood boil. Watching that, my gut reaction is that the cop is a damned hothead who shouldn't be on the streets. He is here to protect and serve, not to verbally abuse people just to show what a big man he is.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I've had first hand experience with dealing with the UK police, was on a night out with a few Uni friends that came from the US, and that got us talking about the situation afterwards. So all I've got regarding the US policing is their stories and views (I don't think they would have lied or embellished but I guess they could have). So i'll freely admit it's just my horribly biased opinion based on secondary evidence.

People in the US, it seems to me, tend to either like or dislike cops with few inbetween so any story you get will likely be rather slanted.

Something that may make quite a difference is that here both police and civilians have guns. The police have to be wary of a suspect possibly being armed and may act more aggressively. Bobbies don't have to worry so much about guns but neither do they have guns themselves so being more respectful and careful is maybe a sort of a survival thing.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It makes one wonder how he acts when he isn't dealing with emergency workers. The cop knew up front that these guys weren't street thugs.

 

[berkeman]

Jeeze guys, this is such old news. I'm tempted to lock... New news only please. Thanks. (BTW, I'm an EMT and have a LEO background...)