Poll: Something from nothing or something eternal

[Picklehead]

I agree that the 'flow' of spacetime requires consciousness (the subjective appearence of motion and a moment-to-moment 'now'). The existence of the 'configurational inter-relationships between quantum objects' themselves does not, I think, depend on consciousness at all. If so, our minds then must be somehow outside this CIRBQO, arranging it and making sense of it all.

Even if, I don't see how that makes possible something from nothing. If the CIRBQO doesn't exist in time (which it doesnt), then how does it happen to come into being without existing in a larger CIRBQO-like structure (mind? is that where you are going?) that is itself timeless?

 

[moving finger]

I agree that the 'flow' of spacetime requires consciousness (the subjective appearence of motion and a moment-to-moment 'now').

I prefer to think of it as : Consciousness generates an illusion of the flow of time.

The existence of the 'configurational inter-relationships between quantum objects' themselves does not, I think, depend on consciousness at all.

I agree. These things exist, independently of consciousness. Consciousness comes along later, and tries to make sense of them.

If so, our minds then must be somehow outside this CIRBQO, arranging it and making sense of it all.

Our minds are PART Of (not outside of.. that's the important thing) the configuration of quantum objects.

Even if, I don't see how that makes possible something from nothing. If the CIRBQO doesn't exist in time (which it doesnt), then how does it happen to come into being without existing in a larger CIRBQO-like structure (mind? is that where you are going?) that is itself timeless?

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here?

Quantum objects exist, and they have relationships to each other in configuration space. Our minds, comprised of quantum objects, also exist in configuration space. Our minds try to assimilate the information we get from other quantum objects, and the best way that we can make sense of the information is by generating 3 space axes and one time axis. These axes exist in our consciousness, they do not exist in configuration space.

MF

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

Concerning this topic, does anyone know where I can find a quote by Steven Hawking on the Creator? It implies that time simply is.

 

[Picklehead]

Moving Finger: Our minds try to assimilate the information we get from other quantum objects, and the best way that we can make sense of the information is by generating 3 space axes and one time axis.

We don't so much impose order because at the level of explanation where mind is evoked, information is already only coming through what essentially is 3 space axes and one time axis (gravity may leak, and whatever, but anyway). In fact it is a limiting factor, or a constraint, just try to imagine a 4D sphere, seeing a predator in the fifth dimension . . . or the future for that matter.

Its really hard to talk about time. That thread with talk of a tense-less grammar(?) is looking good about now.

 

[moving finger]

Concerning this topic, does anyone know where I can find a quote by Steven Hawking on the Creator? It implies that time simply is.

you may be thinking of :

"One could say: 'The boundary condition of the universe is that it has no boundary.' The universe would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would be neither created nor destroyed. It would just be."

or :

"If the universe is really completely self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would be neither created nor destroyed. It would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?"

These are quotes from his book "The Theory of Everything: The Origin and Fate of the Universe"

(though I believe he uses the same quotes in other publications too)

MF

 

[P-a-u-l]

I prefer to think of it as : Consciousness generates an illusion of the flow of time.

And how would you convert my illusory concept of "now" and "then" into objective truth?

The explanation is simple – time is part of spacetime and spacetime is simply your conscious attempt to understand the configurational inter-relationships between quantum objects. It does not exist outside of your conscious mind. That’s it in a nutshell.

If space time is but a concept, then can I ask where and when those configurational inter-relationships between quantum objects do they exist?
If that question is nonsensical, then, can something exist outside spacetime?
Also, do those quantum objects have any dimensions? And if they have, how can you say that space is a mind-concept? (I'm not very familiar with the meaning of "quantum object").

What would it be without time? Am I correct to believe that there would be no motion?