Potential energy and Conservative Force

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of potential energy from a given force vector, specifically in the context of conservative forces. The original poster presents a force vector and seeks to determine the corresponding potential energy function.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the potential energy using integration of the force components. They question the validity of their approach and whether both methods they proposed are mathematically correct.
  • Some participants inquire about the nature of the constants involved and their implications for the integration process.
  • There is a discussion about common mistakes in integrating constants and the correct formulation of the potential energy function.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's reasoning, providing clarifications and corrections regarding the integration of constants. There is a productive exchange of ideas, with some participants suggesting that the original poster's initial method is a shortcut to a more detailed approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants are exploring the implications of treating certain variables as constants and the mathematical consequences of their integration. The discussion reflects a learning process around the definitions and relationships between force and potential energy.

Arman777
Insights Author
Gold Member
Messages
2,163
Reaction score
191

Homework Statement


I have a force ##\vec{F} = a_x\vec{i}+2a_y\vec{j}+3a_z\vec{k}##. Find the potential

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Lets suppose
And we know that ##\vec {F} = ∇U##

In this case I said that

##U_x=-\int F_xdx##
##U_y=-\int F_ydy##
##U_z=-\int F_zdz##
and then I said

##U= U_x+U_y+U_z##

Is this mathematically true ?

Normally I should have ##U(x,y,z) = -\int F_xdx## I guess..For example in this case I should have something like
##U(x,y,z) = -a_x^2+U(y,z)##
then I can say
##U(x,y,z) = \int (-a_x^2+ 2a_y)dy## etc. Which one is correct ?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Mileto Graziano
Physics news on Phys.org
Are ax etc. constants? If so, what are their integrals wrt x, y, z?
You can always check your answer using the differential equation you quoted.
 
haruspex said:
Are ax etc. constants? If so, what are their integrals wrt x, y, z?
You can always check your answer using the differential equation you quoted.
##a## are constant. I find the answer its easy to find. I was asking about the mathematical part of it.Are both approaches are true ?
 
Arman777 said:
Normally I should have ##U(x,y,z) = -\int F_xdx## I guess..For example in this case I should have something like
##U(x,y,z) = -a_x^2+U(y,z)##
then I can say
##U(x,y,z) = \int (-a_x^2+ 2a_y)dy## etc. Which one is correct ?

You should never integrate a constant ##a_x## and get ##\frac12 a_x^2##. That's a common mistake.

Instead, you have:

##\vec{F} = (a_x, 2a_y, 3a_z) = - \vec{\nabla}U(x, y, z) = -(\frac{\partial U}{\partial x}, \frac{\partial U}{\partial y}, \frac{\partial U}{\partial z}) ##

If we start with ##-\frac{\partial U}{\partial x} = a_x##, then this gives:

##U(x, y, z) = -a_xx + f(y, z)##

Now we have:

##\frac{\partial U}{\partial y} = \frac{\partial f}{\partial y} = -2a_y##

Which leads to ##f(y, z) = -2a_yy + g(z)##

And, finally we have:

##\frac{\partial U}{\partial z} = \frac{dg}{dz} = -3a_z##

Which gives ##g(z) = -3a_zz + C##

Your first method is just a shortcut for this.
 
PeroK said:
You should never integrate a constant ##a_x## and get ##\frac12 a_x^2##. That's a common mistake.

Instead, you have:

##\vec{F} = (a_x, 2a_y, 3a_z) = - \vec{\nabla}U(x, y, z) = -(\frac{\partial U}{\partial x}, \frac{\partial U}{\partial y}, \frac{\partial U}{\partial z}) ##

If we start with ##-\frac{\partial U}{\partial x} = a_x##, then this gives:

##U(x, y, z) = -a_xx + f(y, z)##

Now we have:

##\frac{\partial U}{\partial y} = \frac{\partial f}{\partial y} = -2a_y##

Which leads to ##f(y, z) = -2a_yy + g(z)##

And, finally we have:

##\frac{\partial U}{\partial z} = \frac{dg}{dz} = -3a_z##

Which gives ##g(z) = -3a_zz + C##

Your first method is just a shortcut for this.
Yes sorry. Its a stupid mistake that I made...I see your point, thanks for clarifying it.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
Replies
64
Views
6K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K