Potential energy contributes to the mass

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of mass in relation to potential energy, particularly in composite objects. Participants explore whether the arrangement of components, such as bricks, affects the overall mass due to potential energy contributions, referencing various sources and examples.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Debate/contested, Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the mass of a constructed object depends on how its components are arranged, implying that potential energy may contribute to the overall mass.
  • Several participants request references to support the claim about mass and potential energy, indicating a desire for sources to substantiate the discussion.
  • Another participant clarifies that the term "mass" refers to "invariant mass" or "rest mass," and notes that the mass of a composite system can differ from the sum of its individual parts due to potential energy contributions.
  • Atomic nuclei are cited as an example where the mass is less than the sum of the individual masses of protons and neutrons, highlighting the role of binding energy.
  • A participant expresses skepticism about the views of one referenced author, indicating a divergence in opinions regarding interpretations of quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of mass contributions from potential energy, with some expressing agreement with the idea while others remain skeptical or seek further clarification.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference specific sources and articles, but there is a lack of detailed explanations or resolutions regarding the implications of potential energy on mass. The discussion includes varying levels of familiarity with the referenced materials.

bernhard.rothenstein
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i read in many places:even if you put together identical bricks it turns out that the mass of the object you construct depends on how ou put the bricks together.
do they mean that the potential energy contributes to the mass of the constructed object?
 
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Give a reference to one of the many places.
 
Meir Achuz said:
Give a reference to one of the many places.
give google to look for
Physics 209 last revised 3-2-01
 
Meir Achuz said:
Give a reference to one of the many places.
i find the same thing in
n.david.mermin it's about time princeton university press 2005
 
bernhard.rothenstein said:
give google to look for
Physics 209 last revised 3-2-01

OK, I found it. It's obviously using "bricks" as a metaphor for constituents of a composite object.

In what follows, by "mass" I mean what is often called "invariant mass" or "rest mass", as does that article.

Yes, the mass of a composite object or system does not necessarily equal the sum of the masses of its individual components. The potential energy of the system contributes to the mass of the system. Atomic nuclei are a well-known example: the mass of a nucleus is smaller than the sum of the masses of the individual protons and neutrons. If the individual components have kinetic energy in the reference frame in which the system as a whole is at rest (total momentum = 0), that contributes to the mass of the system as well.
 
Physics 209 last revised 3-2-01 is too long for me to read.
I don't always agree with Mermin, especially on EPR, but I'll buy
Bell's answer.
 

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