Power Loss or gain from a fluid flow

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating power loss or gain in fluid flow, particularly in the context of a setup involving mass flow rates, pressure differences, and temperature measurements. The scope includes theoretical and practical considerations for both incompressible and compressible fluids.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the equation for power loss or gain can be simplified to (volume flow)*(pressure difference) and asks if this applies to gases as well as liquids.
  • Another participant notes that the simple formula is only valid for incompressible fluids and low velocities, emphasizing the need to evaluate multiple fluid properties at both inlet and outlet for accurate energy change calculations.
  • There is a suggestion that more complex calculations are necessary as flow regimes become more complicated, particularly when compressibility and temperature changes are involved.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the best equation to use for compressible flow and whether inlet and outlet temperatures are required to determine energy change.
  • One participant mentions the specific scenario of analyzing flow before and after a venturi device with differing inlet and outlet diameters and questions if mass flow multiplied by enthalpy change could be used to calculate power, where enthalpy is defined as cp*T.
  • There is a query about alternative methods to calculate power if temperature data is unavailable, focusing on the use of pressure measurements instead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of certain equations for different types of fluids and flow conditions. There is no consensus on a single approach or equation that is universally applicable across all scenarios discussed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for specific fluid properties and conditions, such as temperature and compressibility, which may not be readily available or applicable in all cases. The discussion highlights the complexity of analyzing fluid flow in varying conditions.

99percent
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Hi guys,

I have quick question about calculating the power lost in fluid flow.

So imagine there is a simple setup as in the attached image, where you know the mass flow in and out, pressures at inlet and outlet and the temperature at the inlet.

Is the equation to find the power lost or gained by the flow just (volume flow)*(pressure difference)?

I know that you can use this to calculate the power required for a pump using liquids, does this also work for gases?

Thanks!
 

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Simple formula only works with incompressible fluids and low velocities .

Even if doing only simple tests or calculations then at least two properties of fluid really need to be evaluated at inlet and outlet to get energy change .

As flow regime gets more complex and compressiblity and temperature changes become more relevant then more complex calculations are nescessary .

Some fluids like vapours which might go through phase transition are even more complicated to test or analyse .

All covered in Thermodynamics and Fluid Flow theory but you'll have to study that .
 
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Thanks very much for your answer and explanation!

Edit: What equation would be best to use? Would I also need to know the temperature at both the inlet and the outlet to get energy change for compressible flow?
 
Last edited:
99percent said:
Thanks very much for your answer and explanation!

Edit: What equation would be best to use? Would I also need to know the temperature at both the inlet and the outlet to get energy change for compressible flow?

Depends on what type of flow you are actually trying to monitor . Give me a specific example and I'll get back to you .
 
Nidum said:
Depends on what type of flow you are actually trying to monitor . Give me a specific example and I'll get back to you .

I am basically looking at a flow before and after a venturi like device, however the inlet and outlet diameters are different.

Could I just use the mass flow* (enthalpy change)to get the power? where the enthalpy is cp*T?

If I don't have the temperatures, is there a way of just working it out using the pressures?
 

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