Probability of hitting a target

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the probability of an archer hitting a target based on a given probability of success per shot. Participants explore the expected number of hits, the standard deviation of those hits, and the implications of these statistics in terms of confidence intervals and probability calculations. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and statistical interpretation.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that with a probability p of hitting the target, the expected number of hits after n shots is np, and the standard deviation is given by ##\sqrt{np(1-p)}##.
  • Another participant calculates the expected number of hits as 70 with a standard deviation of approximately 6, questioning if this leads to a confidence interval of (58, 82).
  • A correction is made regarding a calculation error where the sample size n was mistakenly noted as 10 instead of 100, affecting the standard deviation.
  • Some participants discuss the interpretation of the interval and clarify that it represents an expectation rather than a guarantee, noting that the actual percentage of trials meeting this criterion is a random variable.
  • There is a question about finding the probability of hitting the target 64 or fewer times in 100 attempts, with a calculation of the z-score and associated probability presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the calculations for expected hits and standard deviation but express differing views on the interpretation of confidence intervals and the implications of statistical results. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of the confidence interval and its practical interpretation.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the actual percentage of trials meeting the confidence interval criterion is a random variable, and there is discussion about the convergence of probabilities as the number of trials increases.

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TL;DR
Expected number of shots on target
Say an archer has a probability p of hitting the target.
Given n shots at the target, the number of hits = np
The standard deviation of hits = ##\sqrt{np(1-p)}##

Say p = 0.7
Given 100 shots, my expected/average number of hits = ##100 \times 0.7 = 70##
The standard deviation for the number of hits = ##\sqrt {100 \times 0.7 \times 0.3} \approx 6##

We can assume this to be a normal distribution because the number of successes > 10 and the number of failures > 10.

Does this mean that (##2 \times 6 = 12##) 95% of the time the average number of hits = ##70 \pm 12## (mean ##\pm 2 \times## standard deviation)?

So we have an interval (58, 82). Is this a confidence interval or something else?
 
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Agent Smith said:
TL;DR Summary: Expected number of shots on target

Say an archer has a probability p of hitting the target.
Given n shots at the target, the number of hits = np
The standard deviation of hits = ##\sqrt{np(1-p)}##

Say p = 0.7
Given 100 shots, my expected/average number of hits = ##100 \times 0.7 = 70##
The standard deviation for the number of hits = ##\sqrt {10 \times 0.7 \times 0.3} \approx 1.4##

We can assume this to be a normal distribution because the number of successes > 10 and the number of failures > 10.

Does this mean that (##2 \times 1.4 = 2.8##) 95% of the time the average number of hits = ##70 \pm 2.8## (mean ##\pm 2 \times## standard deviation)?
That standard deviation is too small. You dropped a zero. n = 100, not 10.
 
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Hornbein said:
That standard deviation is too small. You dropped a zero. n = 100, not 10.
I made some edits.
 
Looks OK to me.

Take out "average." If we did an actual trial we'd just count the number of hits and wouldn't be averaging anything.

On average in 95% of trials the number of hits is in the interval 70±12. That is, it isn't guaranteed to be 95%. The actual percentage of 100-shot trials that would meet this criterion is a random variable with expected value of 95%.
 
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Hornbein said:
Looks OK to me.

Take out "average." If we did an actual trial we'd just count the number of hits and wouldn't be averaging anything.

On average in 95% of trials the number of hits is in the interval 70±12. That is, it isn't guaranteed to be 95%. The actual percentage of trials that would meet this criterion is a random variable with expected value of 95%.
That is to say the number of hits will be in the interval (58, 82), 95% of the time?
 
Agent Smith said:
Does this mean that (##2 \times 6 = 12##) 95% of the time the average number of hits = ##70 \pm 12##
You should say "is within ##\pm 12## of ##70##", not "=".
Agent Smith said:
(mean ##\pm 2 \times## standard deviation)?

So we have an interval (58, 82). Is this a confidence interval or something else?
It is the 95% confidence interval. There are other intervals with different confidence levels.
 
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Agent Smith said:
That is to say the number of hits will be in the interval (58, 82), 95% of the time?
That's the expectation. In real life it might be different. In math we might say that it converges to 95% as the number of 100-shot trials goes to infinity.
 
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@Hornbein can I find the probability of hitting the target 64/less times in 100 attempts now?

##\text{z score} = \frac{ 64- 70}{6} = -1##
The probability associated with a ##\text{z score} = -1## is ##0.16##
##P(X \leq 64) = 0.16##
:partytime:
 
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Agent Smith said:
@Hornbein can I find the probability of hitting the target 64/less times in 100 attempts now?

##\text{z score} = \frac{ 64- 70}{6} = -1##
The probability associated with a ##\text{z score} = -1## is ##0.16##
##P(X \leq 64) = 0.16##
:partytime:
Looks good to me.
 
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  • #10
Hornbein said:
Looks good to me.
Are you sure? 🤔
 
  • #11
No. I don't get paid to do this.
 
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