Problem regarding vapour density of a mixture

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the percentage of dissociation of N2O4 based on its vapour density at a certain temperature. Participants explore the concepts of vapour density, apparent molar mass, and the implications of dissociation in a gas mixture, with a focus on theoretical and conceptual understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the concept of vapour density in relation to a mixture and questions the application of the formula for vapour density.
  • Another participant asserts that while a mixture does not have a molar mass, it has an apparent molar mass that relates to gas density.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity of the units associated with the vapour density value provided (30), with participants emphasizing the importance of specifying units.
  • A participant provides a definition of vapour density and its relationship to molar mass, citing a Wikipedia source for clarification.
  • One participant suggests using absolute values for density calculations to avoid ambiguity, while another questions the necessity of the definitions being discussed.
  • A later reply proposes a method to calculate the mole fractions and average molecular weight of the gas mixture based on the percentage of dissociation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the definitions and implications of vapour density and its application to the problem. Multiple competing views and interpretations remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the clarity of the units associated with vapour density and the assumptions made about the dissociation process. The discussion also reflects varying levels of understanding of the underlying concepts.

tbn032
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Misplaced Homework Thread
The vapour density of N204 at certain temperature is 30. Calculate the percentage of dissociation of N204 at this temperature. N2O4(g)⇌2NO2(g)?
I am unable to understand the concept behind vapour density of the mixture.
Currently, I understand that
2 x vapour density=molar mass.
Vapour density =
mass of n molecules of gas ÷ mass of n molecules of hydrogen.
Vapour density
= molar mass of gas ÷ molar mass of H₂.
I am unable to apply the above formula because a mixture does not have molar mass.
And I am also not able to understand that if
2 x vapour density=molar mass
then in the question, molar mass of N204 at the certain temperature given would be 60 instead of 92.
The correct answer is 53.33%
 
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tbn032 said:
mixture does not have molar mass.

True, but it has an apparent molar mass, one that directly relates to the gas density. "Molar mass of the gas that would have given density".

2 x vapour density=molar mass

No idea where you got it from, but it is wrong. Check the units.

Imagine 1 mole of a gas of molar mass mM at STP. What is its mass? What is its volume? What is its density?

Can you reverse the process? Calculate the apparent molar mass from the density?

Note:

The vapour density of N204 at certain temperature is 30

doesn't make much sense. 30 of what? Miles per hour? Pounds per gallon? Ounces per pint? Again: units are crucial part of the information.
 
Borek said:
doesn't make much sense. 30 of what? Miles per hour? Pounds per gallon? Ounces per pint? Again: units are crucial part of the information.
"Vapour density is the density of a vapour in relation to that of hydrogen. It may be defined as mass of a certain volume of a substance divided by mass of same volume of hydrogen.

Vapour density = mass of n molecules of gas / mass of n molecules of hydrogen.
Vapour density = molar mass of gas / molar mass of H2
vapour density = molar mass of gas / 2.016
vapour density = 1⁄2 × molar mass
(and thus: molar mass = ~2 × vapour density)
For example, vapour density of mixture of NO2 and N2O4 is 38.3.
Vapour density is a dimensionless quantity."
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vapour_density&oldid=1082641758
 
OK, I would call that a relative vapour density, but English is my second language, so there can be some differences in the nomenclature. Ideas behind are identical though.

In general when dealing with density I feel like it is much safer to use absolute values, measured in mass/volume units. While they may require an additional step during some types of calculations they are unambiguous.

Have you moved ahead with the question?
 
My reactions are the same as Borek. Not sure this is not an unnecessarily pedantic concept and definition that one could well get through chemistry without.
To treat it how it deserves what is this vapour density for 100% dissociated N2O4, I.e. 100% NO2? :oldwink:

For where does the 2 come from, look up the definition in Wikipedia. You will note that it is actually 2.016 - all to do with the exact atomic mass given to the hydrogen atom which is not what it once was, not exactly 1
 
Last edited:
Suppose you started out with one mole of ##N_2O_4## and x% dissociated to ##NO_2##. Then you would have ##1-\frac{x}{100}## moles of ##N_2O_4## left, and ##\frac{2x}{100}## moles of ##NO_2## would have formed. So, the total number of moles present would now be ##1+\frac{x}{100}##.

Based on this, what would now be the mole fraction of ##N_2O_4## in the gas mixture? Of ##NO_2##? In terms of x, what would be the average molecular weight of the gas mixture?
 

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