Proof for Lorentz Transformation of Momentum: Step Explained

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The discussion revolves around understanding a specific step in the proof of the Lorentz transformation for momentum. Participants express difficulty in deriving the equation involving gamma factors and velocity transformations, emphasizing the complexity of the algebra involved. Suggestions include using the properties of 4-vectors and proper time for a potentially quicker solution. One user eventually succeeds in manipulating the algebra after careful observation and acknowledges the assistance received. The conversation highlights the challenges of relativistic momentum transformations and the collaborative effort to clarify the derivation process.
little neutrino
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Hi. In the attached proof for Lorentz transformation for momentum http://www.colorado.edu/physics/phys2170/phys2170_sp07/downloads/lorentz_transformation_E_p.pdf, there is this step that I don't understand:

1/√1-u'2/c2 = γ(1-vux/c2)/√1-u2/c2

Can someone explain how they derived this? Thanks! :)
 
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Which part of this step don't you understand? Can you show exactly where you get stuck?
 
I tried substituting the Lorentz transformation for u'
ux' = (ux-v)/(1-uxv/c2)
into the LHS
and simplifying it from there, but I couldn't derive the expression on the RHS :(
 
little neutrino said:
I tried substituting the Lorentz transformation for u'
ux' = (ux-v)/(1-uxv/c2)
into the LHS
and simplifying it from there, but I couldn't derive the expression on the RHS :(

Yes, it's quite difficult algebra to derive this identity. You have three gamma factors and a velocity transformation formula to manage. You just have to keep working at it.

There is a quicker way using the properties of 4-vectors and the proper time of the particle if you are comfortable with those?

Actually, I've just noticed a very quick way simply using the transformation of the time coordinates ##t## and ##t'##.

Let me know if you are interested in the quick way!
 
Last edited:
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little neutrino said:
I tried substituting the Lorentz transformation for u'
ux' = (ux-v)/(1-uxv/c2)
into the LHS
and simplifying it from there, but I couldn't derive the expression on the RHS :(

Maybe this is a trivial point, but you have to use the Lorentz transformed expressions for ##u'_y## and ##u'_z## as well as ##u'_x##. Start with ##u'^2=u'^2_x+u'^2_y+u'^2_z## in the LHS. As PeroK says, there's a lot of messy algebra to work through, but it should work out.

PeroK said:
Let me know if you are interested in the quick way!

Well, I'm certainly interested if OP isn't. :biggrin:
 
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Likes little neutrino
The relationship between the proper time of the particle and the two coordinate times is:
##\frac{dt}{d\tau} = \gamma, \frac{dt'}{d\tau} = \gamma '## (1)

Differentiate the transformation for time wrt proper time:

##t' = \gamma_V(t - Vx/c^2)##

##\frac{dt'}{d\tau} = \gamma_V(\gamma - V \gamma v_x/c^2) = \gamma_V\gamma (1- Vv_x/c^2) ##

Then, using (1) we have:

##\gamma ' = \gamma_V\gamma (1- Vv_x/c^2)##

In fact, you can derive the energy-momentum transformation much more easily by differentiating the components of position wrt proper time of the particle.
 
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Wow, that is pretty.
 
With rapidities (i.e. trigonometry), \theta'=\theta-\theta_V,
\begin{align*}\cosh\theta&#039;<br /> &amp;=\cosh(\theta-\theta_V)\\<br /> &amp;=\cosh\theta\cosh\theta_V-\sinh\theta\sinh\theta_V\\<br /> &amp;=\cosh\theta\cosh\theta_V(1-\tanh\theta\tanh\theta_V)\\<br /> \gamma_{u&#039;}<br /> &amp;=\gamma_{u}\gamma_{V}(1-uV)<br /> \end{align*}
 
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Likes vanhees71 and little neutrino
PeroK said:
Yes, it's quite difficult algebra to derive this identity. You have three gamma factors and a velocity transformation formula to manage. You just have to keep working at it.

There is a quicker way using the properties of 4-vectors and the proper time of the particle if you are comfortable with those?

Actually, I've just noticed a very quick way simply using the transformation of the time coordinates ##t## and ##t'##.

Let me know if you are interested in the quick way!

Sflr I was caught up with some stuff this week :/ I just figured out the algebraic manipulation after substitution of u' ; I realized that I had to observe the final expression more closely instead of blindly manipulating the algebra. Thanks so much for your help! :)
 
  • #10
TeethWhitener said:
Maybe this is a trivial point, but you have to use the Lorentz transformed expressions for ##u'_y## and ##u'_z## as well as ##u'_x##. Start with ##u'^2=u'^2_x+u'^2_y+u'^2_z## in the LHS. As PeroK says, there's a lot of messy algebra to work through, but it should work out.
Well, I'm certainly interested if OP isn't. :biggrin:
Yup, I finally worked through the algebra. Thanks! :)
 
  • #11
PeroK said:
The relationship between the proper time of the particle and the two coordinate times is:
##\frac{dt}{d\tau} = \gamma, \frac{dt'}{d\tau} = \gamma '## (1)

Differentiate the transformation for time wrt proper time:

##t' = \gamma_V(t - Vx/c^2)##

##\frac{dt'}{d\tau} = \gamma_V(\gamma - V \gamma v_x/c^2) = \gamma_V\gamma (1- Vv_x/c^2) ##

Then, using (1) we have:

##\gamma ' = \gamma_V\gamma (1- Vv_x/c^2)##

In fact, you can derive the energy-momentum transformation much more easily by differentiating the components of position wrt proper time of the particle.
Woah that's sweet XD Thanks for the alternative solution!
 

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