Proper Time For Photon on Null Geodesic

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of proper time for a photon traveling along a null geodesic, exploring the implications of the spacetime interval being zero and how this relates to the definition of proper time in different contexts, including timelike and spacelike intervals.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that proper time in a photon's frame of reference is zero, but question how this conclusion follows from the null interval condition (SPACE)² - (TIME)² = 0.
  • One participant explains that proper time along a worldline can be derived from the integral of the spacetime interval, asserting that a photon travels along a path of zero proper time in all reference frames.
  • Another participant states that proper time and proper interval are equivalent, differing only by a factor of c, and references the Minkowski metric to support this claim.
  • Conversely, one participant expresses skepticism about the applicability of proper time to null worldlines, suggesting that it may only be meaningful for timelike intervals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between proper time and null geodesics, with some asserting that proper time is zero for photons while others question the validity of discussing proper time in this context. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the definitions of proper time and spacetime intervals, particularly regarding their applicability to null and spacelike worldlines. The discussion does not resolve these ambiguities.

Hacky
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I can understand the logic from some arguments as to why proper time in a photon's "frame of reference" is zero. I cannot understand how this follows from the argument that (SPACE)2 - (TIME) 2 = 0. This to me says that the SPACE-TIME interval for the photon is zero (null interval) and SPACE = TIME, but how does it follow that proper time in the null geodesic is zero? Thanks.
 
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If the worldline is a straight line, the proper time between two points on that worldline is the interval. We can get the proper time along an arbitrary wordline by dividing the worldline into many small straight line segments, and adding up the intervals for the segments. Since the interval is the same in all reference frames, the proper time along a worldline is the same in all reference frames. A photon travels along a path of zero proper time in all reference frames. Assuming we set up perpendicular coordinate axes, the proper time along a worldline is defined as the integral of (SPACE)2 - (TIME) 2, just like arc length along a path is Euclidean space is defined as the integral along the path of (SPACE)2.
 
Proper time and proper interval are one and the same thing, only a factor of c between them. The Minkowski metric may be written

[tex]c^2d\tau^2=ds^2=c^2dt^2-dx^2-dy^2-dz^2[/tex]
 
I don't know about this, I think that the spacetime interval is only equal to the proper time for timelike intervals. I am not sure that it makes sense to talk about the proper time along a null worldline any more than it makes sense to talk about the proper time along a spacelike worldline.
 

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