Properties of fields in quantum field theory

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of fields in quantum field theory (QFT), specifically focusing on the energy-momentum tensor, the interpretation of field derivatives, and the concepts of mass and energy in relation to fields. Participants explore theoretical aspects and clarify misconceptions related to these topics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on whether φ with a dot over it (or φ') refers to ∂φ/∂t, suggesting it represents the velocity of the field.
  • Another participant argues that φ' is the rate of change of the field value at a specific point, not the velocity of the field itself, using the analogy of waves in a rope.
  • Questions are raised about how a field can have mass, with one participant suggesting that fields have energy and thus a mass equivalent.
  • A counterpoint is made that equating energy with mass is a common misconception, emphasizing that energy exists in various forms and does not imply that energy is a form of mass.
  • Further clarification is provided that in classical field theory, fields do not have mass but possess energy, while in QFT, fields can have mass, though the reasoning is left for further exploration by knowledgeable participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between energy and mass in the context of fields, with some asserting that fields can have mass due to their energy, while others contest this notion, indicating a lack of consensus on this point.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference Noether's theorem and the derivation of E=MC^2, indicating that the discussion involves complex theoretical concepts that may not be fully resolved within the thread.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying quantum field theory, particularly in understanding the nuances of field properties, energy-momentum tensors, and the implications of mass and energy in theoretical physics.

space-time
Messages
218
Reaction score
4
I have been studying quantum field theory and I am currently in the Lagrangian field theory chapter in my book. Now it says that the energy momentum tensor is as follows:

Tμν= [∂L/∂(∂μφ) * ∂νφ] - δμνL

Note: I am using L to symbolize Lagrangian density and not just Lagrangian since the latex box doesn't have the curly L in it. Those two indices on the term on the right go to the Kronecker delta, not to the L.

It follows up by saying that

T00 = [∂L/∂φ' * φ'] - L (in the book, they have φ with a dot over it instead of φ' )

Now I just want to verify some things:

Does φ with a dot over it (or φ' ) refer to ∂φ/∂t ?

If so, then this would be the velocity of the field correct, since it is the first time derivative? I ask this because unlike in the classical mechanics example problems that the book gave (where I was just dealing with position functions of time), fields φ(x,t) are functions of both time and space.

Also, how does a field itself have a velocity if it permeates all of space? I could see how the particles that are generated from fluctuations of said field have a velocity. How does the field itself have a velocity? Does velocity for a field refer to how fast the particles generated from that field move or how fast the field's fluctuations are? Is it something else?

Finally, how can a field itself have mass? If you plug a Lagrangian density into the Euler Lagrange equations for some given Lagrangian densities, then you sometimes get mass terms in the equations of motion that you derive? Once again, I see how a particle that comes from a field has mass, but I don't see how the field itself has mass (example, I see how the gluon has mass, but how does the strong field have mass?)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
As to the last question about the fields having mass, I would suppose (if I am incorrect please correct me) that since the fields have energy, they must also have a mass equivalent to that energy.
 
snatchingthepi said:
As to the last question about the fields having mass, I would suppose (if I am incorrect please correct me) that since the fields have energy, they must also have a mass equivalent to that energy.

That's not true. Its a VERY VERY common misconception and anyone that believes can be excused. E=MC^2 says mass is a form of energy. Energy comes in a lot of forms eg EM field energy - mas is simply one of those forms. It does not imply energy is a form of mass.

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited:
bhobba said:
That's not true. Its a VERY VERY common misconception an anyone that believes can be excused. E=MC^2 says mass is a form of energy. Energy comes in a lot of forms eg EM field energy - mas is simply one of those forms. It does not imply energy is a form of mass.

Thanks
Bill

May you please PM some of the details, or refer me to a section in a book or even a Wikipedia article so that I can learn more about what you're saying?
 
space-time said:
Does φ with a dot over it (or φ' ) refer to ∂φ/∂t ?

Yes

space-time said:
If so, then this would be the velocity of the field correct, since it is the first time derivative? I ask this because unlike in the classical mechanics example problems that the book gave (where I was just dealing with position functions of time), fields φ(x,t) are functions of both time and space.

No. Its the rate of change of the field value at a specific point. Think of a stretched rope with waves - the derivative gives a rate of change of the height of a little element of the rope - that's not the velocity of the waves of the rope.

space-time said:
Also, how does a field itself have a velocity if it permeates all of space?

The same way waves in a rope have a velocity.

space-time said:
Finally, how can a field itself have mass?

In QFT they can - but I will let someone more conversant in that subject explain why. In classical field theory the field doesn't have mass - it has energy via Noethers theorem and the modern definition of energy - but not mass.

Thanks
Bill
 
snatchingthepi said:
May you please PM some of the details, or refer me to a section in a book or even a Wikipedia article so that I can learn more about what you're saying?

Its simple logic.

The modern definition of energy is via Noether's beautiful and deep theorem:
http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/noetherth.htm

Although you may not have seen it done this way the correct derivation of E=MC^2 uses that:
http://fma.if.usp.br/~amsilva/Livros/Zwiebach/chapter5.pdf

It proves the energy of a free relativistic particle at rest is MC^2. It does not prove energy in a general sense has mass - indeed from the modern definition based on Noethers theorem it makes no sense.

The reason its a very common error is people are often very loose about reasoning with it - even some experts who should know better.

However if you want to pursue it start a thread in our relativity sub-forum.

Added Later

The following may also help:
http://www.quora.com/Does-energy-have-mass

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K