(properties of) what travels through all possible paths?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of matter waves, particularly de Broglie waves, and their interactions with obstacles, including the behavior of neutrinos in various contexts. Participants explore theoretical implications and interpretations related to wave-particle duality and measurement challenges.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that matter waves travel in the form of a wave and can be blocked by opaque obstacles while passing through transparent ones.
  • There is a claim that if something can affect the path of a photon, it must be a physical entity traveling through time and space.
  • One participant asserts that matter waves travel at the speed of light, while another counters that this is not true for matter.
  • There is a discussion about the possibility of some properties of matter waves traveling faster than light, with skepticism expressed regarding this claim.
  • The amplitude of probability associated with matter waves is mentioned as mathematically calculable, though its interpretation is debated.
  • Participants note that while matter waves exist, current technology does not allow for direct measurement or detection.
  • One participant suggests that the photon travels through one slit while the wave travels through both, referencing the behavior of bucky-balls in double-slit experiments.
  • Questions arise about the transparency of materials to neutrinos and whether the matter wave of a neutrino behaves similarly to the particle itself.
  • There is a distinction made between a neutrino as a particle and its matter wave, with discussions on the implications for interference patterns.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the properties and behaviors of matter waves, particularly in relation to neutrinos and their interactions with obstacles. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on several key points.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in definitions of "opaque obstacles" and the conditions under which different particles or waves interact with materials. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of quantum mechanics, particularly regarding wave-particle duality.

San K
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We don't know what travels through the various paths, however we can, at the least, talk about the properties of what passes through...

So the question is: What are the properties of matter (or de Broglie) waves?

Most of the below may be debatable- it travels in the form of a wave

- its does get blocked by opaque obstacles

- it passes through transparent obstacles

- if it can effect the path of the photon, it must be something physical traveling through time and space

- A) it travels at the speed of light

- B) some properties of it travel, at the least, 10,000 times faster than light

- they can interact with other matter waves

- amplitude of probability travels and is mathematically calculable

- they do exist, however we are unable to measure/detect it directly with the current state of the art

- the photon travels through one of the slits and the wave through both (else you cannot explain how a bucky-ball passes through both slits and recombines perfectly)
 
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San K said:
- it travels in the form of a wave
That is just a mathematical description.

"opaque" and "transparent" might be a bit misleading, as they are usually used for light. An electric field might be an obstacle for a charged particle. The full Earth is nearly transparent for neutrinos of low energy.

- A) it travels at the speed of light
While that is true for light, it is not true for matter.

- B) some properties of it travel, at the least, 10,000 times faster than light
No.
You can try to get some properties to travel with arbitrary speed if you use some collapse interpretation of the wave function, but it is tricky to define "properties" then.

- amplitude of probability travels
That depends on the interpretation

and is mathematically calculable
That is true.

- they do exist, however we are unable to measure/detect it directly with the current state of the art
To detect particles, you need an interaction with the particle. An interaction with the particle changes its properties. Sounds obvious, when stated like that? ;)
- the photon travels through one of the slits and the wave through both (else you cannot explain how a bucky-ball passes through both slits and recombines perfectly)
I would call the wave "the photon". In the same way, a bucky-ball can pass through both slits. But with the de-Broglie-Bohm interpretation of quantum mechanics, this is true and the particles actually pass through one slit.
 
mfb said:
The full Earth is nearly transparent for neutrinos of low energy.

Does/would the matter wave (de Broglie wave) of a neutrino travel through earth/opaque obstacles?... just like a neutrino does

it would be interesting to find out the answer
 
What are "opaque obstacles"? Opaque for what? For neutrinos of some energy? For photons of some energy?

What is the difference between "a neutrino" and "the matter wave of a neutrino"? ;)
 
mfb said:
What are "opaque obstacles"? Opaque for what? For neutrinos of some energy? For photons of some energy?

Case/Scenario 1: opaque for light/photons
Case/Scenario 2: opaque for neutrinos

mfb said:
What is the difference between "a neutrino" and "the matter wave of a neutrino"? ;)

a neutrino is a particle form.
the matter wave is the wave form of the neutrino (with or without the particle...depending upon your favorite interpretation...;)...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_wave

let's put the same thing differently...would a neutrino show single particle (double slit) interference within/inside earth?...

however I am not sure how we will be able to make a double slit apparatus for a neutrino...;)
 
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