Prove if x,y are reals that |xy| = |x||y|

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the equality |xy| = |x||y| for real numbers x and y, focusing on the properties of absolute values and inequalities. Participants express their concerns about the rigor and completeness of their proofs, particularly regarding the handling of cases based on the signs of x and y.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore different cases based on the signs of x and y, questioning whether additional steps are necessary in their proofs. There is discussion about the validity of assuming certain conditions without loss of generality and the need for clarity in justifying these assumptions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing feedback on each other's approaches and expressing uncertainty about the sufficiency of their proofs. Some participants suggest that more detailed steps could enhance clarity, while others emphasize the flexibility in proof styles.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of addressing potential gaps in reasoning, particularly in cases involving negative values and the properties of absolute values. There is an acknowledgment of varying levels of detail that can be acceptable in proofs.

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Homework Statement


This is my second proofs course, but I've always felt uncomfortable with absolute values and inequalities because I feel like my proofs are circular or too simple. In this case, I'm not sure if I'm showing enough in my steps.

I would just like to know if this is a way to prove this. I've seen other results online, but I want to be sure I understand this.

Homework Equations


Prove if x,y are reals that |xy| = |x||y|

The Attempt at a Solution


Let x,y belong to the set of real numbers. Since |xy|=|x||y|=0 if either x or y is 0, we can assume that x,y is non-zero.

Case 1: x,y > 0
|xy| = xy = |x||y|

Case 2: x,y < 0
|xy| = (-x) (-y) = |x||y|

Case 3: Either x or y < 0, but not both
WLOG let x < 0 and y > 0 then
|xy| = (-x)(y) = |x||y|

.:. |xy| = |x||y| for x,y in the set of real numbers.
 
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Yes, this is correct. If one wants to be very petty, then an argument, why we may assume ##x<0## and ##y>0## without loss of generality should be added, like symmetry or the possible swap to ##-x,-y##. Good authors add this reason to help their readers to figure out what to do in an opposite case. Of course the length of the w.l.o.g. argument is longer than the fourth case would have been in this case.
 
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fresh_42 said:
Yes, this is correct. If one wants to be very petty, then an argument, why we may assume ##x<0## and ##y>0## without loss of generality should be added, like symmetry or the possible swap to ##-x,-y##. Good authors add this reason to help their readers to figure out what to do in an opposite case. Of course the length of the w.l.o.g. argument is longer than the fourth case would have been in this case.

Thanks. To be sure, I don't need to show an intermittent step on some of the cases? E.G.
Case 2:
x,y < 0
|(-x)(-y)| = |xy| = xy = |x||y|

It's stuff like this where I'm not sure my approach is sufficient in the cases which gives me the feeling of uncertainty.
 
Of Mike and Men said:
Thanks. To be sure, I don't need to show an intermittent step on some of the cases? E.G.
Case 2:
x,y < 0
|(-x)(-y)| = |xy| = xy = |x||y|

It's stuff like this where I'm not sure my approach is sufficient in the cases which gives me the feeling of uncertainty.
Formally you would have to. But you left out a few steps: ##|xy|=|(-x)(-y)|\stackrel{(1)}{=}|(-x)|\cdot |(-y)|\stackrel{D}{=}|x| \cdot |y|## by case (1), which we already know is true, and property ##D## of the absolute value function. And in case you don't have ##|x|=|-x|## you have to insert these steps, too, like you did with the detour to ##|x| = -x## for negative ##x##.

All these subtle steps are needed, if we want to figure out which part of the definition or which axioms are actually used. So for the same reason it would have to be ##|x\cdot 0|=|0 \cdot y|=|0|= 0 = |x| \cdot 0 = 0 \cdot |y| = |x| \cdot |0| = |0| \cdot |y|## where you also could label each equation with the property used. However, in this example every proof between "obvious" to "a complete list with labeled equations" can be seen as correct.
 
Another proof:

##|xy| = \sqrt{(xy)^2} = \sqrt{x^2}\sqrt{y^2} = |x||y|##
 
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