Prove L'Hopitals rule using Taylors expansion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving L'Hôpital's rule using Taylor expansion, specifically addressing the limit of the ratio of two functions that both approach zero at a point. Participants explore the validity of ignoring higher-order terms in Taylor series and the implications of continuity of derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is correct to ignore terms of order \(x^2\) and higher in the Taylor expansion as \(x\) approaches \(x_0\).
  • Another participant suggests that by factoring out \((x - x_0)\), the limit can be simplified, leading to the conclusion that the limit of the ratio of derivatives equals the limit of the ratio of the functions.
  • There is a mention of continuity of the derivatives \(f'\) and \(g'\) as a condition for applying the limit equivalence.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the clarity and elegance of the approach taken in the proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach of using Taylor expansion but express differing levels of confidence in the steps taken and the clarity of the argument. No consensus is reached on the best method to present the proof.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential assumptions about the continuity of the functions and their derivatives, as well as the handling of higher-order terms in the Taylor series.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in mathematical proofs, particularly in calculus and limits, may find this discussion relevant.

ognik
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I'm given that $ \frac{f\left({x}_{o}\right)}{g\left({x}_{o}\right)} =\frac{0}{0} $ and asked to show that:

$ \lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}}\frac{f\left({x}\right)}{g\left({x}\right)} = \lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{f^{'} \left({x}\right)}{g^{'}\left({x}\right)} $
This should be easy, but I suspect I've not got it quite right. Using Taylor (not Maclauren):

$ f\left(x\right) =f\left({x}_{0}\right) + {f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)\left(x - {x}_{0}\right) + {f}^{''}\frac{\left(x-{x}_{0}\right)^2}{2!} + ... $

1) Am I correct to be able to ignore terms in $ x^2 $ and higher powers - because $ \left(x-{x}_{0}\right) $ is very small in the limit?

Then I get $ \lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{f\left({x}\right)}{g\left({x}\right)} =
\lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)\left(x-{x}_{0}\right)} {{g}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)\left(x-{x}_{0}\right)} =
\lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)} {{g}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)} $

2) Can I argue, by 'reversing' $ _{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} $, to let $ \lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)} {{g}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)} =
\lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}\right)} {{g}^{'}\left({x}\right)} $

I get the feeling what I've done is clumsy and there is a better way?

Thanks for reading
 
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ognik said:
I'm given that $ \frac{f\left({x}_{o}\right)}{g\left({x}_{o}\right)} =\frac{0}{0} $ and asked to show that:

$ \lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}}\frac{f\left({x}\right)}{g\left({x}\right)} = \lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{f^{'} \left({x}\right)}{g^{'}\left({x}\right)} $
This should be easy, but I suspect I've not got it quite right. Using Taylor (not Maclauren):

$ f\left(x\right) =f\left({x}_{0}\right) + {f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)\left(x - {x}_{0}\right) + {f}^{''}\frac{\left(x-{x}_{0}\right)^2}{2!} + ... $

1) Am I correct to be able to ignore terms in $ x^2 $ and higher powers - because $ \left(x-{x}_{0}\right) $ is very small in the limit?

Then I get $ \lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{f\left({x}\right)}{g\left({x}\right)} =
\lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)\left(x-{x}_{0}\right)} {{g}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)\left(x-{x}_{0}\right)} =
\lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)} {{g}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)} $

2) Can I argue, by 'reversing' $ _{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} $, to let $ \lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)} {{g}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)} =
\lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}\right)} {{g}^{'}\left({x}\right)} $

I get the feeling what I've done is clumsy and there is a better way?

Thanks for reading

Yes that's correct. Alternatively you can factor the $x-x_0$ part and cancel it out.

\[\lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{f\left({x}\right)}{g\left({x}\right)} =
\lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)\left(x-{x}_{0}\right)+\frac{f''(x_0)(x-x_0)^2}{2!}+\cdots} {{g}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)\left(x-{x}_{0}\right)+\frac{g''(x_0)(x-x_0)^2}{2!}+\cdots} = \lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)+\frac{f''(x_0)(x-x_0)}{2!}+\cdots} {{g}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)+\frac{g''(x_0)(x-x_0)}{2!}+\cdots} = \frac{{f}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)} {{g}^{'}\left({x}_{0}\right)}\]

If $f'$ and $g'$ are continuous (in other words $f$ and $g$ are continuously differentiable) we have,

\[\lim_{{x}\to{{x}_{0}}} \frac{f\left({x}\right)}{g\left({x}\right)} = \lim_{x\rightarrow x_0}\frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)}\]

Hope this helps. :)
 
Thanks :-)
 
ognik said:
Thanks :-)

You are welcome. :)
 

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