Prove # of m-cycles in Sn (symmetric group)

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves proving the formula for the number of m-cycles in the symmetric group Sn, specifically when n is greater than or equal to m. The original poster expresses uncertainty about using induction for the proof and provides examples for various values of n and m.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster considers using induction but questions its applicability after examining examples. They detail the reasoning behind counting the number of ways to form an m-cycle and express a desire for helpful tips.

Discussion Status

Participants are engaging with the original poster's reasoning, with one participant asking about the difficulty and the number of ways to form an m-cycle. There is a suggestion that explaining the reasoning without induction could be sufficient.

Contextual Notes

The original poster is working under the constraints of proving the formula for all m less than or equal to n, and there is an emphasis on understanding the counting process involved in forming m-cycles.

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Homework Statement



Prove that if n>=m then the # of m-cycles in Sn is given by [n(n-1)(n-2)...(n-m+1)]/m

Homework Equations



The order of Sn is n!. We're counting the # of ways of forming an m-cycle, then divide by the # of a particular m-cycle.

The Attempt at a Solution



This problem doesn't seem too bad. Initially I was thinking about using the induction proof. But now that I have doubts the induction would even work after I looking at an example since we have to prove for any given n in symmetric group, the # of m-cycles in Sn = [n(n-1)(n-2)...(n-m+1)]/m for all m<=n.

For example if n=5, then
1) m=1, (# of m-cycles in Sn) = 5/1 = 5
2) m=2, (# of m-cycles in Sn) = 5*4/2 = 10
3) m=3, (# of m-cycles in Sn) = 5*4*3/3 = 20
4) m=4, (# of m-cycles in Sn) = 5*4*3*2/4 = 30
5) m=5, (# of m-cycles in Sn) = 5*4*3*2*1/5 = 24

Any helpful tips would be greatly appreciated!
 
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hi xsw001! :wink:
xsw001 said:
The order of Sn is n!. We're counting the # of ways of forming an m-cycle, then divide by the # of a particular m-cycle.

what's the difficulty? :confused:

what are the # of ways of forming an m-cycle (and why)? :smile:
 
Okay, for any given Sn, there are n elements in Sn {1, 2, ... m,..., n}, so we have n choices for the 1st element, then n-1 choices for the 2nd element, so on and so forth, and we have n-k+1 choices for mth element, etc. So there are total of n(n-1)(n-2)...(n-m+1)choices to form a m-cycle, to count the number of cycles that we have, then we have to divide by m so that we don't count too many.

Can I just explain it out without using induction proof then?
 
yup! that should do! :smile:
 
Cool! Thanks tiny-tim!
 

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